Author Topic: New Bomber Sys. After Thoughts  (Read 1061 times)

Offline Karnak

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New Bomber Sys. After Thoughts
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2002, 03:16:37 AM »
GunnerCAF,

I think you completely missed his point.

Its the target setup, not the bomber model that is the problem.  Right now it is far, far more effective for a single player to take a Bf110G-2, P-38L, P-47D-30 or Mosquito VI than any bomber.  Those fast, heavy fighters will do far, far more damage to any (yes, any) target in any given amount of time.  With 2 players (or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 ect, ect) the answer is the same.  Take the fast heavy fighters if you really want to do damage.

If you want to diddle around with level bombers, make craters and have no impact on the war effort to speak of, well, take a B-17G, B-26B, Boston Mk III, Ju88A-4, Ki-67 or Lancaster Mk III formation.


I think that nearly all of us prefer the new bombing system (I know I do), but unless there is an actual reason to use it, it won't get used.
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Offline Sarge1

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New Bomber Sys. After Thoughts
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2002, 07:51:08 AM »
would be nice when flying in formation bombing bomb pattern would be a little wider then all three hitting same area as lead .



« Last Edit: July 21, 2002, 10:14:28 AM by Sarge1 »

Offline GunnerCAF

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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2002, 10:59:27 AM »
Thanks Karnak.

Gunner
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Offline Halo

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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2002, 11:01:57 AM »
Bombing like everything else in Aces High is a work in progress.  And cutting edge too.  HiTech and associates will keep making it better, and threads like this help them better understand the problems and challenges.
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Offline ET

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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2002, 01:50:07 PM »
Before this tour a buff could take out fuel or barracks and hinder the nme from helping a base under attack.They contributed to country effort. Many times I tried to resupply a base geting hit to find the closest bases resupply shut down.Someone took the time to do it. Now you take up 3 times the bomb load and get 1/3 the hits on targets if that much and shut nothing down.
  The k/d stats against buffs has doubled so far this tour as opposed to the last tour. At that rate most people will go to greener pastures. Why bother.
  You can kill more in a 110 then you can kill in a flight of 3 and be more able to hit your target.
  Bombing factorys or HQs or the main city is useless at best. A P47 will do more damage.
  The risk is not worth the reward in buffs at this time and needs to be reinvaluated.

Besides that, it ain't no fun.

Offline SirLoin

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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2002, 02:13:42 PM »
Up a formation of Lancs....Climb out to 20k and level...Check in a few minutes AI buffs are in tight...All looks good on level flight...5 minutes later you check 6 and your 2 AI buffs aint there...

:mad:
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Offline tgnr2001

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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2002, 02:34:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
Up a formation of Lancs....Climb out to 20k and level...Check in a few minutes AI buffs are in tight...All looks good on level flight...5 minutes later you check 6 and your 2 AI buffs aint there...

:mad:


Did you fly over sheep... I know that's always a problem for me... other two pilots go AWOL every time.

:D   tgnr

Offline tgnr2001

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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2002, 02:38:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ET
Before this tour a buff could take out fuel or barracks and hinder the nme from helping a base under attack.They contributed to country effort. Many times I tried to resupply a base geting hit to find the closest bases resupply shut down.Someone took the time to do it. Now you take up 3 times the bomb load and get 1/3 the hits on targets if that much and shut nothing down.
  The k/d stats against buffs has doubled so far this tour as opposed to the last tour. At that rate most people will go to greener pastures. Why bother.
  You can kill more in a 110 then you can kill in a flight of 3 and be more able to hit your target.
  Bombing factorys or HQs or the main city is useless at best. A P47 will do more damage.
  The risk is not worth the reward in buffs at this time and needs to be reinvaluated.

Besides that, it ain't no fun.


Hey!! How about if we could control 3 to 6 buffs instead of just 3.. and could control formation (box, "V", whatever"), then we'd have the choice of spreading bombs over wide area (fields) or concentrate attack (towns), and the maps wouldn't need to be changed  :)

tgnr

Offline phishnut

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New Bomber Sys. After Thoughts
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2002, 05:53:05 PM »
Before 1.10, I used to fly bombers around 50-60% of the time with the b-26 being my favorite plane in AH(behind the yak :)  ).  Most of that bomber fun was, after spending 30 min in route and dodging fighters and ack, getting to kill vital targets (fh, vh, radar, fuel, etc) and greatly helping the team in the process.  

As it stands, the difficulty of getting the bomber to the target is multiplied tenfold by the additions of the large amount of time spent in calibration (which leaves a pilot helpless to any enemy fighters over the field) and the large amount of time spent holding your fellow drones' hands otw to and over the target.  In addition, bombing must be carried out below 14k unless a pilot spends extra time lining up the field east to west.  

Finally, and most importantly, most run of the mill bomber pilots, like myself, have little chance to hit anything of value on the field.  One might say that bombers can easily destroy a town, but that doesn't cut it.  In a fraction of the time, I can take a 110 and single-handedly take down a town, and then I can CAP afterwards and have much more fun in the process.  

Many also have said and will say that bombers can and do kill individual targets on the field, but those kills are made by a dedicated fraction of the pre-1.10 numbers of bomber pilots in the game.

In short, bombers must spend much longer time flying to and setting up the target, they must spend a large amount of time defenseless while calibrating their target thus lowering their survivability, and, in large part, they have little change to hit anything of value (unless they target towns, which can easily be destroyed by jabos).

With the above in mind, I, who loved bombing pre-1.10, no longer fly bombers.  My bf 110 kills targets of value much quicker than my bomber (which doesn't at all), and I am more valuable due to my plane's ability to vulch afterwards.  

Most importantly, jaboing has become much more fun than bombing.  Before anyone says that was my bag anyway, bombing was one of the most fun things to do in the game for me pre-1.10.  

I can't speak for anyone else, and I might be the only one to feel this way, but I have noticed that there is much less bombing and much more jaboing going on than before.  The new bombing system is very realistic and atmospheric, but it shouldn't be implemented at the cost of fun and balance.

 
-phishnut

Offline AcId

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« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2002, 10:21:50 AM »
For me the new system is lacking in a sense of accomplishment for the Bomber pilot. With a B-17 in the old system we could consistently take 6k of bombs and do 6k worth of damage, I can understand how that would upset the ballfondlers and I don't think I've tried to argue that. Now with the new system we can take 3 B-17's with a total of 18k worth of bombs and be lucky to do any damage (ballfondlers rejoice). I'm sure there is a happy medium between the two, and I'm confident HTC is monitoring the progress of Bomber pilots and maybe even investigating on some tweakage. Either the bomber pilots will get better and adjust or they wont, in which case changes will probably be made. Relax, it'll all work out in 2 weeks.;)

Offline Furzy

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« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2002, 02:05:33 PM »
If a small circle or a dot was placed on the ground (on your FE only of course) as soon as you press the MArk button. This dot or whatever would I think be easier to track than some smudgy texture.

Furzy

Offline Shiva

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New Bomber Sys. After Thoughts
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2002, 02:53:12 PM »
Furzy, that's a very good idea; something I have noticed about the ndisles terrain is that the water texture bites for being able to pick out an identifiable feature to use for calibrating your sight, and with that terrain, there are a lot of targets where you simply don't have the distance between the water's edge and the target to be able to reliably calibrate your sight and still be able to make a drop on your intended target (without pushing your sight line way out in front of your plane, which reduces the calibration accuracy). If we got a calibration mark that followed the terrain movement while we held down the 'y' key, we'd still have to keep it centered by hand, but we wouldn't be left to the vagaries of the ground texture to be able to find something with enough contrast to be able to see to use as a mark.

Offline Furzy

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« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2002, 03:26:37 PM »
This May sound gamey (about as gamey as having icons on fighters or range finders on CV/SB guns). But how about giving the MArk point An Icon with reference something like eg -020 Y-axis and +056 X-axis. Youll still have to go throgh exact same routine but at least you will have an Idea how well your doing it.

As I say a Game concession like plane Icons!

Furzy

Offline Shiva

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« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2002, 04:10:45 PM »
Or, as an alternative to the current method of holding the bombsight to a mark on the ground, how about something a little closer to the way the Norden was calibrated -- when you go into the groundspeed calibration function (right now, pressing 'y' while holding the crosshairs on a mark), instead of holding to a mark, what you get is the crosshairs slaved to your airspeed plus or minus some random variation (so that, if calibrated accurately, it would be tracking a single spot on the ground), and you had to adjust the speed and drift settings a lá the manual trim controls to eliminate the perceived motion of the crosshairs. When you've stopped the crosshairs from moving, the sight is calibrated to your plane's ground speed.

Offline MoonJuice

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New Bomber Sys. After Thoughts
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2002, 01:39:38 PM »
I like the new system, except for the manual calibration part of having to hold a cursor on a spot for 2 seconds - I find this difficult.

After calibrating, my bomb sight is often scewed to the left or right and I have to then adjust my course - I don't understand this, the bomber was on course before I calibrated - and in these cases, my bombs usually miss.

We need a better forward view so that we can see and line up on the target. I've had to adjust my head position so that it's shoved below the bomb sight pressed up against the glass.

How about changing the calibration so that once you line up on the target, established your speed and altitude, you go to the bombadier sight, press U, click on the map and the drop alt, speed, wind, and target alt are automatically set.

Increase the randomness to the bomb dispersion so that it's not always a sure thing the bombs will hit on target.

I would also like to see the top gunner allowed to shoot about 2 degrees closer to the tail. There's a large cone of air space un protected.

Another problem, is when I'm in a gun position and my plane is FUBAR going down, I have to first move to the pilots position and then bail. This delay causes the other buffs to spiral down with the plane I'm in - or snap that short silver thread.

If the gun I'm in is disabled or blocked by the vertical stab, but the guns in the other planes are not, let them continue firing. Forcing the gunner to hop around to find a gun that shoots, gives the advantage to the attacker.

With this new system, I'm finding it easier to kill buffs, and more difficult to bomb and defend.

But I do like the new system, I just think it needs tweaking.