Il2 vs AH

[udet]

I don't think I would play IL2 online. The campaign is decent,but some things get annoying quickly. Like the fact that you have to follow your leader at all times. At first I was trying that but i soon got bored of it and started doing my own thing. What are they going to do,courtmartial me?
I see that everyone has had or has low frame rate when there is a large numbe of a/c involved,or when getting close to another aircraft.
On the other hand, AH has no problems modelling huge number of a/c, but I experienced significant decrease in frame rate when smoke or numerous clouds are present.
I don't know how the gunnery is modelled in IL2 but I never managed to cause damage from a deflection shot, while in AH it's fairly easy to hit an opponent in a turn.
On this,I really can't tell which sim is more authentic, but AH is much more enjoyable. maybe it's cause I have been playing it for a while and I learned the right amount of deflection,which might be different in IL2.

[Sclew]

Why does someone ALWAYS bring out the R2800 twin Wasp when the subject of overheating an engine comes up?

YES the Twin wasp ran succesfully for 20 someodd hours at extremely high boost when testing the P-47M engine.
It also was used to being run at full military constantly.

But REALITY check here- the R2800 was easily the most over-engineered engine of WWII by far. It isn't the standard to use comparing other planes!

The Merlin and DB engines were both water cooled systems- reports from all sources indicate that these planes could run into serious overheat issues at full military power alone- in WEP you could start the coolant boiling and send engine temp so high it welded itself together in mid-flight.

Thats why Spit and Mustang pilots will ALWAYS make note of the fact they broke the wire on the throttle in combat. It was literally a do or die at that point. And 109 manuals will always point out that the overboost was for takeoff and short periods only. Hell - Oleg has 109 test reports of G6's the soviets tested where the engines could run for as little as 5-6 minutes at full boost pressure before the coolant boiled and the engine had to be throttled back fully and allowed to cool.

Maybe Il-2 overdoes how fast a plane heats up, or how WEP affects things. But in AH there is a lack of some serious disparity in how WEP and overheating affects radials vs water cooled engines.

[SKurj]

i really like every aspect of IL2 with one MAJOR problem..

The view system sucks, thats the only thing that stops me playing the game..

i prefer the view systems in every flightsim i've ever played (cept mebbe dos days) to the il2 system...  This slowmo headturn thing is total crap.  Yes in reality u can't look instantaneous like we do with 'instant' views in AH BUT .. The brain filters everythin in view as you turn your head... they can't do that yet on a pc...

The snap system is too slow in il2 IMO...
(ww2ol's i prefer)

too many damn buttons to worry about to use padlock which i dislike anyways...

it coulda been great IMO...


SKurj

[Kweassa]

Well yes, the view is largely restrictive. Perhaps too much. There have been people requesting Oleg for more lenient views, or programmable ones such as in AH, however, not many people actually feel the difference because most of the on-line hoardes play WITHOUT cockpits anyway(and through some debates, I have seen people claiming no-cockpits are more 'realistic' than overly restrictive cockpit views.. * snicker *).

 One trick I've learned is to use every kind of view buttons I can to get angles for visual. Scrolling trough wide/normal/gunsight views, continuously clicking shift+1 to toggle view angles and etc.. it's a real pain. AH might be a little too lenient in the view cataegory, but overall programmable view concept is about the best alternative there is to depicting 3D visual environment in 2D IMO.

[Hristo]

Views in Il-2 can be set to pan or snap, just like AH. Or padlock. You just have to give the game a chance to find it out.

As well as many other things. Did you know that you fire an ammo mix in Il-2 ? Try hitting the ground with a cannon burst. Some shells will make white puffs, some black puffs or sparks.

The game goes very deep, you just have to give it a chance.

[LoGo]

IL-2 is farkin AWSOME... but so is AcesHigh in it's own special way

I just lurv getting online in IL-2 and mangling nearly all the pilots in the 'room'.. thanx to the skillz i learnt from AH

[Czpetr]

Originally posted by Sclew

The Merlin and DB engines were both water cooled systems- reports from all sources indicate that these planes could run into serious overheat issues at full military power alone- in WEP you could start the coolant boiling and send engine temp so high it welded itself together in mid-flight.

In Spitfire IX "pilot`s notes" there is no warning about overheating engine at full boost. I think such thing should be mentioned for sure (as there are mentioned many other details about flying, operating engine etc.)

Originally posted by Sclew

...... Hell - Oleg has 109 test reports of G6's the soviets tested where the engines could run for as little as 5-6 minutes at full boost pressure before the coolant boiled and the engine had to be throttled back fully and allowed to cool.

 

That is very, very hardly believeable. The fighter which is not able to fly more than 5-6 mins at full boost is useless IMHO. Cannot imagine how LW fighter pilot push throttle back in the middle of combat to cool his engine. I remember an interview with one Finish ace who flew 109G during WWII (the link was here on AH BBS somewhere/somewhile ago), he stated that 109 had very effective cooling system and no problems with cooling engine except if it run with WEP for long time. Either Russian testers did something wrong or they confused it somehow with MW50 use.

czpetr

[Mark Luper]

Actually that test on the R2800 for the P-47M ran for 300 hours at overboost, don't remember the boost figure, but it was almost double the normal boost. Yes, they were overengineered, bet a bunch of pilots were happy about that

[Wotan]

Czpetr


I believe that link about the finnish pilot was on this board and I believe he said there was no problem at running at full power.

[AKSWulfe]

Hristo- the problem is your head is still stuck on a stick. You can't move it around like in AH.
-SW

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Karnak
An R-2800 (P-47's engine) was run at WEP for what, 96 hours straight?

Il-2 way over does engine heat.  AH over does engine heat.

This may be true, but IL2 does not have the P47...Most russian aircraft didn't even have a radio. Those that did were chucked because they didn't work. They gladly took the P39 (widow maker) on lend lease and it became one of the favorite AC of the Soviet pilots. Does anyone have any data on the AC of IL2. I wonder what kind of flight model the Mig 3U would have in AH. I doubt if you could find one in the MA.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Hristo
Views in Il-2 can be set to pan or snap, just like AH. Or padlock. You just have to give the game a chance to find it out.

As well as many other things. Did you know that you fire an ammo mix in Il-2 ? Try hitting the ground with a cannon burst. Some shells will make white puffs, some black puffs or sparks.

The game goes very deep, you just have to give it a chance.

I know Hristo, it is a best boxed sim ever in many respects. But there are 2 problems, which makes game borring for me.

AI.

Game has no dinamic campaign, so no roleplaying. No fun to overplay same mission 10 times. What I did in Aces Over Europe many years ago, I put it on full realism, and played till first death, which made it very interesting even against AI. If I died, I started a new game from beginning. No dinamic campaign makes it impossible.

[Creamo]

Hristo- the problem is your head is still stuck on a stick. You can't move it around like in AH.

I find out new AH features all the time even after playing it since it was released Beta. I still don't think you can use a similar fluid mouse movment view like in IL-2. Maybe you can, I haven't in any case.

Properly setup, IL-2 has a amazing view system, admitting I think I may be bias because i have mouse scroll functions on the Saitek.

I hated it at first till I just sat down and configured and flew it. Until then I moaned and was a vocal critic as many here are.

I like my crow with carrots and taters.

[AKSWulfe]

You missed the point Creamo... it's a "nice" view system. Amazing? Hardly... the mouse view is pretty neat, although completely useless for me. I just use the pan/snap combo view.

The problem is that your head is still stuck on a stick, there is no torso or even neck. It's like you are a robot, stuck in a sardine can. You can look all around you... but you can't get your head up against the glass to get a better view behind you or in front of you and below your cowling.

If it had the ability to shift your viewpoint around inside the cockpit, then it would be the perfect view system... although the pan/snap combo view moves a little too slow for my tastes.
-SW

[Creamo]

Noted SW, but I miss understood the “stick” reference. I thought you were comparing AH to IL-2.

It can be said about most ALL flight sims, is I can sit in my chair and turn full RIGHT with my head to the 6 view, and then LEAN lateral while looking back across the seat to the actual LEFT six view instead of turning completely around across past the instrument panel to do so. Again, that’s a torso limitation of any sim I have tried. I’d like that but it must be a pain to program, and something else to pull of with fingers and hat switches.


As for leaning against the glass, that’s another way of saying AH has a liberal (oh the great debate) 6 view. No point in arguing what limitations are right or wrong.
 I feel that the AH 6 view in certain aircraft are way to forgiving, some in Il-2 or say WBS a bit limiting. I’m content to have a personal opinion and adapt to each developers version and know that everyone else has the same advantage/disadvantage in said particular game.

Is Il-2 views “amazing?” Probably not, I should say excellent, fair enough.

Although I do still find myself somewhat amazed to an extent utilizing the Saitek mouse feature for adjustments I can’t get in other sim cockpits, and the zoom to really dig the realistic cockpits and gauges, is, ok, excellent.

edit- Oh yeah, faster pans, that would be nice.