Author Topic: My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs  (Read 343 times)

Online eddiek

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2002, 07:24:02 AM »
Ahhhhhhh......okay, I see what you're saying Wotan.  
Prior to 1.10, it was not uncommon to see buffs hitting FH's prior to or during an attempted base capture.  Not sure about it now, I haven't been online that much lately.
My impressions have always been that buffs are primarily strategic weapons, fighter/jabos were and are tactical weapons.
Neither is restricted to their historical roles, nor should they be.
BoB, 1940:  Did not LW send bombers over England, targetting the RAF airfields?  What was their purpose?  To piss off the RAF, or to cut down on the RAF's defensive capabilities?  IIRC, it was the latter, and that example can be used here.
Using buffs in a tactical role, during a base capture or when you are setting up a base capture, is entirely acceptable to me.  
It all gets back to people complaining what someone else is doing.  
To me, it's all good, and it can all be fun if you just let yourself go and accept that everyone has a right to do what they want.  Even if it disrupts what you are doing....... :p

PS: I read your stuff before you edited it.  LOL  This was my reply.

Offline Innominate

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2002, 07:30:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by eddiek

BoB, 1940:  Did not LW send bombers over England, targetting the RAF airfields?  What was their purpose?  To piss off the RAF, or to cut down on the RAF's defensive capabilities?  


The LW bombers were there to ruin the fun of the RAF spitdweebs! :D

Offline lazs2

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2002, 08:09:24 AM »
Cutting down the supplyu of fuel or ammo or plane types is not only gamey but it will cause people to log off or not on at all.   It will just make the game more lopsided a lot sooner and for a longer percentage of time per reset.   Never any parity when a person logs on and no way to get out of the hole if you are outnumbered.

My original idea for the fluffs was to have very large cities.   when the cities are destroyed the "war" is over.   regardless of how many airfields are left.   People can choose to defend the cities or not depending on if they wish to "win the war"...   capturing airfields will still be an advantage as it will give you a base closer to the city for bomber operations.

No FH's... revetments.  they can't be strafed they have to be hit by a large bomb.   As many revetments as needed to make good gameplay.
lazs

Offline Wotan

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2002, 08:10:00 AM »
the lw did send bombers  to hit raf airfields but the lw used its bombers as tactical weapons. They didnt send 4 eng bombers at 10k to hit an 8 x 8 fuel shed.

the point behind the majority of the lw bombing campaign was to draw out raf fighters so they could be killed. Not simply to kill 2 fhs then die to reup and do it again. They were relatively successfull at forcing the raf to engage more so then they realized but not to the degree they expected.

Theres no attrition in ah so using this tactic is stupid. I have killed many buffs in my day. 7 in 1 109g10 no rearm. They arent hard to stop. They are just no fun. Killing bombers is only slightly harder then killing a fh. I live in florida and we have plenty of red ants here. I can stomp a million of in a day if chose but its slightly less fun then killing a bomber only due to the florida heat.

The main isnt a war no one wins anything. Folks wanna have fun. Bomber folks are upset because now more then ever they can be ignored more then before. Theres plenty of "targets" for
bombers in ah. Theres folks who can teach the others how to hit them. The problem is they are ignored even more so hitting those other targets.

Bombers dont hit airfields in ah to capture, they do to be a part of the action and not to be bored. Well thats not their roll and ht decided to model bombers so that sniping off fhs would be hard, WTG ht.



****

ya know what I just had a look at your kill stats.you have killed b17s more then anything else you have 4.6 kills an hour so its pretty clear you enjoy long flights and easy kills so now I know where you are coming from.

Why not just say that? :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: July 24, 2002, 08:12:30 AM by Wotan »

Offline Karnak

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2002, 08:54:16 AM »
Vortex,

I was thinking of the Jabo/Ostwind vs. strategic target problem this morning.  What I would do is put 4-5 armored flak-pillboxes at each of the strat targets that required 10-15k each to destroy.  Fly high enough and only the 88s could shoot at you, but Jabos and Ostis don't fly high.

Lazs,

I agree, limiting plane choice, fuel or ordinance would be unfair and stupid.  That's why I didn't suggest doing any such thing.  If you were replying to Wotan, he didn't suggest such a thing either.  He suggested completely separating the bombers from the game.  I don't think that is a good idea at all.  If the bombers job was that separated they might as well just fly offline.  Since this is an interactive game, where we all have some effect, the bomber gameplay should be integrated into the overall gameplay.
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Online eddiek

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2002, 09:00:23 AM »
HHmmm,....... didn't know I had killed more B-17's than anything else, but I don't go looking at my stats very often.
And I  don't rate my "fun level" at how many kills per hour I get.  I don't even rate "fun".  Either it is, or it isn't.  If you look at those stats, you will also see that my kills cover pretty much the whole spectrum of AH.  Buffs, fighters, and ground vehicles/boats are all included, I don't focus on any one thing.
Anyway, , have fun, fly the game whatever way you want.  There is room for all types here, that's the point I've been trying to get across.

BTW, your own 5.4 kills per hour is only slightly higher than mine, so what is your point?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2002, 09:04:10 AM by eddiek »

Offline Shiva

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2002, 09:08:23 AM »
Quote
BoB, 1940: Did not LW send bombers over England, targetting the RAF airfields? What was their purpose? To piss off the RAF, or to cut down on the RAF's defensive capabilities? IIRC, it was the latter, and that example can be used here.


Well, unless the furballers are willing to accept much heavier field-porking, I don't think that HTC's going to do much in that direction. The problem is that, if you look at the actual usage of bombers and jabos during the war, and compare it against  the MA, what we have is a mess. The early war tactical bombing was performed by dedicated jabos like the Stuka and light bombers like the Ju-88, but by the late war, tactical bombing had been taken over by the heavy fighters, with light bombers no longer being the most effective close-support weapon. And in the MA, because there's no restriction on what plane people pick to take up (except for the perked ones), tactical bombing is an air environment that is no longer survivable for the light bomber at low altitude, and inappropriate for the heavy bomber at high altitude. Jabos are the light bombers of the late war -- four P-47s could carry more bombs than one four-man Ju-88, and be less vulnerable to interdiction.

Quote
1) How does one prevent against the uber-ostis? As it sits now, especially on something like the pizza map, one Osti is a far better choice than an entire squadron of B17's or Jabo's...its more deadly offensively against ground targets, faster to get to target, and more defendable. Point here is that if all else stays the same, at least on the pizza map, all you'd do is further negate the need for buffs. With hardened targets the uber-37mm of a single Osti would still take out an airfield structure without issue...or strat ones for that matter.


It occurs to me that the problem with 'die überFlaK' could be addressed by adding another type of ground object. We already have FlaK emplacements to defend towns, fields, and strat targets from aircraft, and we have shore batteries to defend against naval vessels. But a FlaK emplacement is -- or should be, if the armor model was done right vs. light HE rounds -- a poor choice for defending against ground vehicles. If the towns, fields, and strat targets had PaK (Panzer abwehr Kanone -- anti-tank gun) emplacements that would attack incoming enemy GVs, that would thin out the Ostweenies.



PaK emplacements at towns and small fields would likely be two or three 75mm PaK 40 in bermed emplacements (the gun is already modelled for the PzKpfW IVH, so it doesn't require a new weapon definition); a medium field would have the same number of emplacements, but in concrete bunkers like a shore battery, and a large field would have five or six emplacements in bunkers. Vehicle fields would have one or two open PaK emplacements. Strategic targets would likely have a PaK bunker near each corner, towns might have a pair of open PaK emplacements at diagonally-opposite corners.

Offline weaselsan

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2002, 10:01:30 AM »
The problem with the buff's prior to 110 was simply the ability to lazer a GBU on to a target from  30K. Try and up a fighter from any were and climb to 30K. Then position your wallowing AC well above the fluff to even have the slightest chance of a decent shot. While he has the abilty to use a stable gun platform capable of takeing you out from over 1.0d. Defend???

Offline ccvi

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2002, 12:15:12 PM »
please also add gold mines and woods, where players can drop workers instead of troops. they would chop the trees, or drill for oil, then carry it to the bases.

:D

PS: actually i like Karnak's idea.

Offline SKurj

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2002, 01:51:30 PM »
current buff model is a gameplay concession for the furball fighter crowd...

errm that went too far... time for a concession for the buffs



SKurj

Offline popeye

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2002, 03:53:07 PM »
I like the idea of putting fortified anti-tank guns on the fields and in the towns.
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Offline Vortex

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My idea to give bombers a real role without hurting furballs
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2002, 06:13:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Vortex,

I was thinking of the Jabo/Ostwind vs. strategic target problem this morning.  What I would do is put 4-5 armored flak-pillboxes at each of the strat targets that required 10-15k each to destroy.  Fly high enough and only the 88s could shoot at you, but Jabos and Ostis don't fly high.

 


Good ideas, that would work quite well I'd think.
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