Author Topic: Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts  (Read 956 times)

Offline Shuckins

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2002, 03:45:24 PM »
Corporate mismanagement and corruption have been around since the first corporations were formed in the last century.  It can never be eliminated entirely as long as fallable human beings are chairmen of the corporations.  

Republican controlled Congresses did very little about it during the first part of the 20th century.  Democratic controlled Congresses did little about it during the latter half of the century.  

How can an administration that was "for sale" and that did not believe in any "controlling legal authority" not be held accountable for the consequences of these actions and beliefs.  Clinton could have forced corporate reform legislation through Congress when his party held control of the Senate from 1993-1994.  The Republican majority in the House at that time was razor thin.  He could have used his famous powers of persuasion to enlist the help of sympathetic Republicans.  But Clinton was the most partisan of Presidents, especially during that period.  He made little effort to win over Republicans until after the electorate spurned the Democratic party in the Congressional elections of 1994.  


Regards, Shuckins

Offline Toad

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2002, 05:25:46 PM »
Wow, 10bears. There's some real tenuous (at best) connections there. All those things that happened before 9/11 that you listed were the Bush administration either deliberately or inadvertently ruining the economy?

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Early summer 2000 polls show Bush ahead of Gore the stock market starts to dip


You're prepared to detail the cause and effect relationship here? If a mere poll shows Bush ahead that's the cause for a stock market dip and, by extension, leads to recession? Please elaborate.

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Yeah and why quibble about things like evidence?..


You assume there is none. You further assume the government would publicly release all of their information long before we're ready to act.

I believe you to be wrong on both counts.

Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction

"Prior to the Gulf War, Iraq produced enough chemical and biological weapons material to kill the world's population several times over. It is still trying to procure weapons technology. The United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) has destroyed more weapons than were destroyed during the whole of the Gulf War. Its work is vital to the security of the entire Middle East.
This web site, produced jointly by the British Foreign & Commonwealth Office and Ministry of Defence, contains the latest news updates on the situation in Iraq, its refusal to cooperate with United Nations (UNSCOM) weapons inspections, and the subsequent UK military action. It also offers a dossier, in English and Arabic, explaining the role of UNSCOM, the extent of Iraq's weapons programmes, and a chronology of events."

The evidence is out there.

Now, some may be content to wait and see if there is another 9/11-type attack on the US with Iraqi supplied Weapons of Mass Destruction. I'm sure some would want to find Saddam' s DNA on the remains of the weapon before action is authorized too. Of course, if his DNA WAS on the weapon, there would be those who would claim it was planted there by the CIA.

I'd rather remove the threat before the attack can be made. I think there is ample evidence and I think it will be made available before we act.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline 10Bears

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2002, 06:12:14 PM »
You say the recession couldn't have happened in two months.. I say it had been building up prior to Bush's selection.
As for Iraq, read what 12 year Marine veteran Scott Riker has to say.

The real American emperor
By Carla Binion
Online Journal Contributing Editor
 
 
July 25, 2002—With today's avalanche of corporate scandals, I'm reminded of early warnings from wise journalists. In Who Will Tell The People (Simon & Schuster, 1992) Bill Greider warned that certain multinational corporations, companies largely unaccountable to U.S. law, were slowly eroding American democracy. Greider mentioned that German social critic Wolfgang Sachs had called those corporations and their global marketplace the world's new "closet dictator."

In The American Presidency (Common Courage Press, 1998) Gore Vidal said we are a people "conditioned from birth to believe that Americans possess neither an emperor nor a ruling class." However, today's emperor is not any individual politician, but is, among other entities, the unaccountable corporations referred to by Sachs and Greider.

Gore Vidal also points out that today the emperor and its supporting ruling class have rendered the office of the president "as powerless as it is expensive to gain, rather like elections to the Roman consulships, which were retained to the end of the empire while Caesars did the ruling. They kept the forms of an ancient and revered republic while depriving consuls and Senate of those powers to rule which were now the emperor's sole prerogative."

As an example, Vidal points out the effort to "get" President Bill Clinton was a warning strike from the ruling class to "any politician who might want to divert tax money back to the people in the form of, say, health care." When the Clintons proposed a national health care system that threatened insurance company profits, the insurance industry ("cash cow to the richest 1 percent of the population," according to Vidal) conducted a media blitz against the Clinton plans.

This look back at the get-Clinton effort is not a defense of the Clintons but a defense of the American people's right to select our own leaders. The point is to note that the U. S. ruling class and its right-wing allies have at times gone to great lengths to weaken democracy and oppose the will of the people.

In The Hunting of the President: The Ten-Year Campaign to Destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton, journalists Joe Conason and Gene Lyons say, "Hillary Clinton's remarks about a 'vast right-wing conspiracy to undermine my husband' were initially mocked by pundits as a feeble defense of her husband's bad character. Yet subsequent revelations about OIC's [Office of Independent Council's] behavior lent weight to her accusations."

By the time details emerged regarding "the secretive machinations of Lucianne Goldberg, Linda Tripp, Richard Porter, George Conway, Ann Coulter and Jerome Marcus to buttress the first lady's allegations . . . there was little argument about the existence of a 'conspiracy,' and still less about whether the plotters were 'right-wing,'" Conason and Lyons write.

Conason and Lyons also note that most Americans objected to the fact that during the get-Clinton frenzy, "the Washington press appeared to have joined forces with a partisan prosecutor to void the results of two presidential elections." They add that this effort to nullify the will of the people via the partisan-driven Clinton impeachment was "a ratings-driven coup d'etat."

Gore Vidal says the ruling class initially assumed Clinton would play by their axiom: "Do nothing at home unless the banks give the green light and the boardrooms sign on." Instead, Clinton acted independently to "rev up the economy and even do things that need doing for the people at large." In other words, Clinton was attacked by wealthy, right-wing interests in part because he believed he could in some instances go against the ruling class on behalf of the people.

According to Vidal, the get-Clinton effort was a message from the ruling class to all challengers: "Don't mess with us. It's our country, not yours. We're not selling. And forget about taxing us. Anyway, isn't it pretty exciting now we got just about the whole globe? Soon we'll get into China. Big market. Cheaper than going to war with them but maybe we'll have to go that route too, one of these days. The big one. Meanwhile, just keep government off our backs."

This might also be the message of the stolen election.

Around the time of the 2000 election, oil, insurance, pharmaceutical and other corporations expressed disdain for a Gore presidency, fearing Gore might favor industry regulation. An article, "America in the Grip of Bush's 'Iron Triangle," (The Observer, December 3, 2000) noted those corporations wanted to "take over the regulatory bodies of government and regulate themselves."

The efforts to depose Clinton and to steal the 2000 election also happened to subvert democracy and oppose the expressed will of the people, whether they originated primarily with "right-wing" or "ruling class/corporate" interests. Those interests are often the same.

Some of the following paragraphs appeared in an earlier article of mine. They exemplify corporate opposition to the Clinton health care plan.

In 1993, the Clinton administration tried to do something about the high price of prescription drugs, hinting at possible government-imposed price controls. The pharmaceutical industry then turned to the Beckel Cowan PR firm to oppose the administration's designs on lowering the cost of prescription drugs—although, of course, arguably the Clinton plan would have benefited the public.

John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton, (Toxic Sludge is Good for You, Common Courage Press, 1995) write that Beckel Cowan "created an AstroTurf [or, fake grassroots] organization called 'Rx Partners' and began deploying state and local organizers to, in the words of a company brochure, 'generate and secure high-quality personal letters from influential constituents to 35 targeted members of Congress.'"

Pharmaceutical companies weren't the only corporations to oppose the Clinton health care plan and target Congress. The insurance industry went to work to fight against the Clinton proposals, recruiting PR-man Robert Hoopes.

According to Stauber and Rampton, the 300,000 member Independent Insurance Agents of America (IIAA) hired Hoopes as their "grassroots coordinator/political education specialist."

Campaign & Elections magazine reported the IIAA activated "nearly 140,000 insurance agents during the health care debate, becoming what Hoopes describes as a new breed of Washington lobbyists," say Stauber and Rampton.

Hoopes said the lobbyists "have behind them an army of independent insurance agents from each state, and members of Congress understand what a lobbyist can do with the touch of a button to mobilize those people for or against them."

In Campaign & Elections magazine ("Killing Health Care Reform," October/November 1994) Thomas Scarlett wrote of the insurance companies PR moves, "Through a combination of skillfully targeted media and grassroots lobbying, these groups were able to change more minds than the president could, despite the White House 'bully pulpit.' . . . Never before have private interests spent so much money so publicly to defeat an initiative launched by a president."

Propagandist Rush Limbaugh also fueled the anti-health care debate on his radio show with frequent "calculated rants" aimed at his dittohead audience. The insurance industry's PR-man Blair Childs said his coalition ran paid ads on Limbaugh's show to encourage Rush's listeners to call members of Congress and urge them to kill health care reform.

Stauber and Rampton say congressional staffers often didn't know the callers were "primed, loaded, aimed and fired at them by radio ads on the Limbaugh show, paid by the insurance industry, with the goal of orchestrating the appearance of overwhelming grassroots opposition to

health reform."

By 1994, the insurance corporations' PR attacks had changed the political environment. Stauber and Rampton write that "Republicans who previously had signed on to various components of the Clinton plan backed away." Even Democratic Party Senate majority leader George Mitchell "announced a scaled-back plan that was almost pure symbolism . . . Republicans dismissed it

with fierce scorn."

In George W. Bush, the ruling class and closet dictator have their yes-man. Commentators for the corporate-owned media have no need to attempt to hound him out of office as they did Clinton for daring to try to "rev up the economy and even do things that need doing for the people at large." The insurance and oil industries have no need to battle this president for trying to tax or regulate them, as they might have found necessary if Gore had been allowed to keep his 2000 election win.

As we've seen with Bush's deregulation policies and lax handling of today's corporate scandals, those corporations have little to fear. Bush knows who the "real American emperor" is. He allows the closet dictator to rule while he plays its protector and serves as figurehead.

This may be the only kind of "president" we Americans are allowed to have from now on, unless we identify and challenge the real American emperor and come up with ways to prevent such things as trivially-based, politically motivated impeachment and stolen elections in the future.

Since the various forms of mainstream media are owned by the same ruling corporations Bush now protects, Bill Greider's question is still relevant. Bush and his corporate cronies may know the identity of the real American emperor, today's closet dictator. However, in the interest of keeping democracy alive, who will tell the people?

Offline Toad

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2002, 06:46:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
You say the recession couldn't have happened in two months.. I say it had been building up prior to Bush's selection.
As for Iraq, read what 12 year Marine veteran Scott Riker has to say.


So we agree then? The recession was building BEFORE the election? That would have been when Clinton was President? Which all goes back to what Kieran said right?

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I don't think that any party can be responsible for the economy. The economy is too complex and independant to ever be pinned down like that.


Which is pretty much where we started. Economic cycles are not necessarily dependent upon or related to which party is holding office at the time the pundits announce an expansion or recession.

As for Riker, did a google search and didn't turn up anything. I'd check it out if I knew where to start looking.

OTOH, I still have what I feel are reliable sources in the business of Reconnaissance. I've pretty much formed my opinion from what they have told me. Time will tell.

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"My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time...
Go home and get a nice quiet sleep."


Time usually does tell. We'll see who was right and who was wrong by and by. No point in getting all in a fuss about it now.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Cabby44

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2002, 07:05:01 PM »
Comrade 10Bears, you, and your above quoted "economic experts"(Gore Vidal??? lol), are funny as hell............

Cabby

Offline lord dolf vader

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2002, 07:12:45 PM »
cabby your not having the effect you think you are.

Offline john9001

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2002, 07:16:28 PM »
gore vidal ?? is that communist still alive??

Offline Elfenwolf

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2002, 07:23:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
gore vidal ?? is that communist still alive??


No, john, he's dead but he's been freeze dried so he looks entirely lifelike and only weighs twelve pounds. He's owned by a former carnival barker who takes him on the lecture circuit at all major Universities, sets him up at the podium and plays tapes of his old speeches before packed houses of leftist college students.

Two things are really bizarre, tho- 1) Nobody realizes he's dead and 2) during the Q & A segment after his speech his recorded answers actually make more sense than his answers did when he was alive.

Offline Eagler

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2002, 08:04:07 PM »
ZZzzzz
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline 10Bears

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2002, 08:05:13 PM »
Sorry Scott Ritter.. makes an excellent argument.. can't find the article right now but he's someone who knows quite a bit about Iraq weapons programe. In any case it won't change your mind so why bother.

Enjoy your Sunday.

Offline Shuckins

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2002, 08:34:51 PM »
10Bears,

Corporations have the same legal status as an individual citizen.  They can sue and be sued.  Their profits are taxed just like those of individuals.  The corporate boards that run them have an obligation to protect the interests of their shareholders.  

If they commit acts that are illegal while protecting those interests they should be punished by the legal system.  Your post suggests, however, that you find their use of media and public relations campaigns to defend their interests to be objectionable.  One of the foundations of our democracy is freedom of speech .  Would you deny them that right?  Or do you believe that the average citizen is so simple minded that they cannot discern the truth about these matters for themselves and must be protected from these "evil institutions?"  How is corporate greed any different from governmental greed?  Once the federal government is given the power to regulate health care and all the other aspects of American life you mentioned in your post who will protect us from government corruption and incompetence?  

I prefer to keep things as they are.  If the heads of Enron have broken any existing law then arrest, try, convict and imprison them.  Pass any laws that are needed to correct the situation.  But please remember that our democratic freedoms cannot be selectively applied.


Regards, Shuckins

Offline Shuckins

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2002, 08:47:52 PM »
10Bears,

Oh...by the way.  I do not totally discount the quotes you used to refer to the "american emperor."  There is some truth to what these authors say.  But I do not accept what they say in totality because they have their own political agendas.  I take their statements with a grain of salt.

Regards, Shuckins

Offline Toad

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2002, 09:05:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
...In any case it won't change your mind so why bother.

Enjoy your Sunday.


Nor, I suspect, would any argument or "proof" change your mind, eh?  ;)

Time will tell.

"And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive him to be." (Desiderata)

"To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
 
(Macbeth V.v. 19-28)

I'm having a great Sunday, hope yours is as well. :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline senna

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2002, 09:32:58 PM »
What does "Desiderata" mean?

Sorry...

Offline Otto

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Bill Clinton Says Republicans Blocked Corporate Reform Efforts
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2002, 09:55:13 PM »
I believe Bill Clinton...   I mean...  how could you doubt him?  Has he ever lied...?