Author Topic: Give it 5 minutes...  (Read 1169 times)

Offline hawk220

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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2002, 09:20:40 AM »
for this moldy toejamhole of a wanna be rainforest?"


have you BEEN to the rainforests up here? it is certainly not a moldy toejamhole.

Offline hawk220

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« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2002, 09:24:06 AM »
ok..I suppose there are lots of smelly roundeyes here tho:D

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2002, 10:06:18 AM »
I have found a small portion of the actual text:

"and I want you to promise one more thing......cough ....cough. Please never ever let anyone named Ripsnort move into this fertile land ....cough..... cough."

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2002, 10:14:10 AM »
And Steve, your research is faulty... no its just plain wrong!
Take 5 minutes to read this. Written by some liberal hollywood type...lol.

Quote
Source: Museum of History and Industry;
Seattle, Washington -- June, 1990
In 1854, the new territorial governor, Isaac Stevens, began the long-awaited process of making treaties with the native peoples of the Pacific Northwest. The purpose of these negotiations was clear: the Indians were to sign away their lands to the settlers in return for small reservations and promises of government aid. Dr. David Maynard, sub-Indian agent and a friend of Chief Seattle, arranged for Governor Stevens to meet with Seattle and his people in December 1854. The Indians congregated on the beach just north of the present Kingdome.

At this meeting, Chief Seattle is said to have made an impassioned speech in his native tongue. As Seattle spoke, Dr. Henry Smith, for whom Smith Cove is named, took notes from which he reconstructed the Chief's words some 33 years later, publishing them in the October 29, 1887 edition of the Seattle Sunday Star. Smith's flowery rendering of Chief Seattle's oration does not conform to what we know of the speaking style of the Puget Sound Indians. Native speech was not given to ornate embellishment. Dr. Smith, for his part, was known as a "poet of no ordinary talent" who "wove into verses and essays much of his musings." Thus while this earliest version of the speech may present the gist of Chief Seattle's remarks, it seems likely that it is also the product of Henry Smith's poetic musings. However flawed it may be, this is the only eyewitness account of Chief Seattle's most famous speech.

That fame is due, in part, to the appearance of a magnificent call to environmental responsibility that has been wrongly attributed to Chief Seattle. In the winter of 1971/72, Ted Perry, a screenwriter working for the Southern Baptist Convention's Radio and Television Commission, used Chief Seattle's speech as a model for the script of a film on ecology called _Home_. The film's producer wanted to show a distinguished American Indian chief delivering a statement of concern for the environment, so Perry wove such wonderful lines as "The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth" among pieces of Chief Seattle's 1854 oration. Perry expected to be given credit for writing this film script, but he made the mistake of including the Chief's name in his text. According to Perry, the producer didn't credit his screen writer because he thought the film might seem more authentic without a "written by" credit. Since then, Perry's environmental text has been widely circulated as a prophetic ecological statement by Chief Seattle himself.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2002, 10:25:10 AM »
Saw a sticker once that read:

The Indian paid no taxes
hunted and fished all day
and the women did all the work

and the white man thought he could improve on this

:)
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2002, 10:39:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
And Steve, your research is faulty... no its just plain wrong!
Take 5 minutes to read this. Written by some liberal hollywood type...lol.

 


Midnight, stop poking me with a stick. Do you think I have read that page or not? I got caught in a nasty flame war over this speech on another BB, and I spent a damn week going through all internet sources there is on this subject.  

This is what I posted 7 posts before you. Read it and shut up.

The reason I used the word "legend" is this. Chief Seattle said "something" in 1854. A doctor was present when he said it, and that doctor later published his speech in a newspaper in 1887. In 1932 that newspaper-article was copied and published by John M. Rich. There exists 4-5 versions of the speech, the one I used was the one published by John M. Rich. We will never know exactly what the old indian did say in his speech. What we have to go on is the words of the doctor. Who on his deathbead swore it was true.

Perhaps he added something -such as the 1000 buffalos, or the disturbing cities, or perhaps he translated the original meaning in a different way to make it more understandable...who knows.

Basically it all comes down to this:
The absence of any evidence, the lack of a Duwimish-language text of the speech, the absence of notes bv Dr. Smith, the silence on the part of persons known to have been present during meetings between Stevens and Seattle, and the failure of the speech to appear in the official treaty proceedings create grave doubts about the accuracy of the reminiscences of Dr. Smith in 1887, some thirty-two years after the alleged episode. Thus it is impossible (without new evidence) to either confirm or deny the validity of the speech.

Offline Elfenwolf

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« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2002, 10:45:34 AM »
There's a spot on the Mendocino Coast that recharges MY batteries. My parents own some acreage there, complete with redwood trees and a salmon spawning stream where you can sit and count the fish as they struggle up riffles that're more shallow than their girth. Time before last whan I was there I watched a flock of 30 to 40 wild turkeys cross a meadow. Deer, river otters and racoons are common with an occasional visit from a bear thrown in for good measure. That's MY drug of choice.

When on the hiway I take the scenic route. I'm usually in no hurry to get somewhere, so taking a few minutes to stop at an overlook or hopping off the freeway to take a more scenic route are pretty standard for me. There's one word to describe the exherilation of driving through the Avenue Of The Giants on a sunny morning, sunlight filtering through the trees, Little Feat on the stereo doing "This Land Is Your Land"- inspiring.

I thank God every day for where I live, His wonderful blessings and His precious gifts of Nature and Life. I am truly blessed by God.

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2002, 10:57:01 AM »
I'm right there with ya elfy..
I live in God's country.   have a great-horned owl and 3 hawks living within 500' of my house.

not to mention wild Trout up the .. well you get the idea :)

and to think.. my GF wants me to move back to Denver!

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2002, 11:01:03 AM »
poke poke!

Who's version did you say you were posting?

Quote
Version 1 appeared in the Seattle Sunday Star on Oct. 29, 1887, in a column by Dr. Henry A. Smith. He makes it very clear that his version is not an exact copy, but rather the best he could put together from notes taken at the time. There is an undecided historical argument on which native dialect the Chief would have used, Duwamish or Suquamish. Either way all agree the speech was translated into the Chinook Jargon on the spot, since Chief Seattle never learned to speak English.

[Version 1 begins: Yonder sky has wept tears of compassion on our fathers for centuries untold, and which, to us, looks eternal, may change. To-day it is fair, to-morrow it may be overcast with clouds. My words are like the stars that never set. ...]
Version 2 was written by poet William Arrowsmith in the late 1960s. This was an attempt to put the text into more current speech patterns, rather than Dr. Smith's more flowery Victorian style. Except for this modernization, it is very similar to Version 1.
[Version 2 begins: Brothers: That sky above us has pitied our fathers for many hundreds of years. To us it looks unchanging, but it may change. Today it is fair. Tomorrow it may be covered with cloud. ...]
Version 3 is perhaps the most widely known of all. This version was written by Texas professor Ted Perry as part of a film script. The makers of the film took a little literary license, further changing the speech and making it into a letter to President Franklin Pierce, which has been frequently reprinted. No such letter was ever written by or for Chief Seattle.
[Version 3 begins: The Great Chief in Washington sends word that wishes to buy our land. The Great Chief also sends us words of friendship and goodwill. This is kind of him, since we know he has little need of our friendship in return. But we will consider your offer. For we know that if we do not sell, the white man may come with guns and take our land. How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. ...]
Version 4 appeared in an exhibit at Expo '74 in Spokane, Washington, and is a shortened edition of Dr. Perry's script (Version 3).
[Version 4 begins: The President in Washington sends word that wishes to buy our land. Buy our land! But how can you buy or sell the sky? the land? The idea is strange to us. ...] ...


Steve's version was written by a screenwriter for a movie.

And try not to tell me to "shut up" again you pompous ass!

Offline Shuckins

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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2002, 11:06:25 AM »
Elfenwolf,

Amen to that!


Regards, Shuckins

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2002, 01:03:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
poke poke!

Who's version did you say you were posting?



Steve's version was written by a screenwriter for a movie.

And try not to tell me to "shut up" again you pompous ass!

What part of "Thus it is impossible (without new evidence) to either confirm or deny the validity of the speech." did you not understand? Basically what it all comes down to is what you believe, the sources give no answer either way.

And note if you will that my version of the speech does not start like any of the above...thus there must exist yet another version. I'm saying that it is from the 1932 pamphlet, bu you claim that you know my sources better than me :rolleyes:

This is rapidly turning into another "no one will ever know how many people were killed in Dresden"-argument, and I have had enough of those. (Frankly I'm surprised that neither AKSWulfe nor Animal has popped in here to accuse me of being a nazi yet...)

And if you want to compare pompous asses, I've got $5 right here that says your bellybutton is bigger than mine.

Shut up or keep writing, your call, but to me this discussion is over.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2002, 02:21:59 PM »
Hortland, if someone tries to pass off lies as fact, you can be sure that I will post a link to snopes, so people can make their own informed decisions about it.  

If you are tired of seeing my snopes links, simply stop posting articles that contain so many lies.

Offline Hortlund

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« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2002, 02:27:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Hortland, if someone tries to pass off lies as fact, you can be sure that I will post a link to snopes, so people can make their own informed decisions about it.  

If you are tired of seeing my snopes links, simply stop posting articles that contain so many lies.


So if I say "Here is a legend I like blah blah blah" I'm trying to pass a lie off as a fact?

As I said, get a life. Stop pestering people. Move along.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2002, 02:57:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund


I'm so sick and tired of you and your damn urban legends page. Are you walking around in december telling kids that santa doesnt exist too? Get a diddlying life.


Geez, I would be responses like this just keep me coming back.  I don't believe that our fellow posters are children, I'm just saving them sometime in making an informed decision about the some of the articles people post here.  

And really when it comes down to it.  There's not a damn thing you can do about.  :p

So, you might as well save yourself some time and aggravation and quit telling me to screw off..

About my life, you don't know a thing about about.  :D

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2002, 02:59:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn




About my life, you don't know a thing about about.  :D


Well, we sorta do, your a drunk, we know that.