Author Topic: On global warming  (Read 1176 times)

Offline Thrawn

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Climate history
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2002, 03:44:37 PM »
"In climate science, snow and ice record a continuous history of climate, with annual 'rings', in Greenland, Antarctica and even the Andes. Ice cores drilled through the 3 km of ice in Greenland give 120,000 years of information: temperature, volcanic dust, pollen, blown topsoil and...what is most miraculous...air bubbles. The air bubbles encapsualate ancient atmospheres... a whiff of the ancient world."

http://www.ocean.washington.edu/courses/envir202/air-essays.html

Offline Thrawn

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On global warming
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2002, 03:57:04 PM »
"This advance in no way approached the extent of continental glaciation during Pleistocene time. The Little Ice age reached its maximum extent here about 1750, when general melting began. Today's advance or retreat of a glacier snout reflects many factors:"

I guess a good question to ask would be, "Is the current rate of glacial recession and thinning, at a rate we would expect coming out of the 'Little Ice Age'?"

Thanks for the link Fatty.  Some good leads there.

Offline Toad

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On global warming
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2002, 04:04:40 PM »
No, no, no, NO!

We're all gonna die. WE'RE all gonna DIE! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!

..... Oh, wait... of course we are. We all knew that, right?

;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Thrawn

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On global warming
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2002, 04:09:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
No, no, no, NO!

We're all gonna die. WE'RE all gonna DIE! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!

..... Oh, wait... of course we are. We all knew that, right?

;)


I'm just trying to get the best information, so me and my family aren't stuck with our pants down if worse comes to worse.  

Do you wear a seat belt when you drive?

Offline Fatty

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On global warming
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2002, 04:10:19 PM »
Like I said I tend to agree they probably are receding too rapidly, but articles that refuse to acknowledge the recent advancement leading into the decline I have no choice but to treat as suspect.  The same as I do those that try to write it all off as a natural cycle ignoring man-made contributions.

Offline Toad

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On global warming
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2002, 04:22:58 PM »
Yes, I do. But car accidents happen in mere moments, not centuries.

You may be a young whippersnapper but the sand in my glass is relatively low. Odds of anything changing disasterously in the next 20-30 years are about the same as me winning the lotto I think.

If you shut off all the "Bad" things man is doing that may be changing our climate it might make a difference...... in a hundred years or so. What else will technology bring to counter the problem by then?

OTOH, as has been pointed out, there have been many periods of cooling and heating of our environment, long before the arrival of man and during his spread across the planet; odds are that will continue. Man may not be the key player; a factor, yes but the ultimate force? I'm thinking not.

Is it possible that we'll have another Ice Age even with all the "global warming" effects that are exclusively caused by man? Who can say? But who can totally rule it out?

I'm all for "green" but there is also reality to face. We're not going to go back and live like Cro-Magnons. Heck, the smoke from that many campfires would probably be worse than what we have now.. not to mention the total denuding of Earth's forests to feed the fires.

;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Wlfgng

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On global warming
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2002, 04:33:52 PM »
Fatty.. damn good point.  it's why I'm still single :)

as for global warming.
who was around during the last ice-age or warming to tell us what it was really like ?

Keith Richards that's who !  
and how do you know he's still alive and not some animatron ?

Offline Thrawn

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On global warming
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2002, 04:49:51 PM »
Toad and Fatty.  I agree with most of what you guys are saying.  I wouldn't expect humanity to change, even if all the climatologist could agree on global warming and it's effects.

I'm keeping my eye on it, so I know when to by a shot gun, to keep the killer ozone mutants of me land.

Seriously though, I think that the possibility of global warming turning into a really really bad situation in my life time, is high enough that I try to get more info about it, and keep my eye on it.  If I find anything, I consider significant, I share it with this board

Speaking of fishing..:D

Landlocked char suggest climate change
Last Updated Tue Aug 6 12:09:48 2002
IQALUIT - Shrinking populations of landlocked Arctic char in the Far North may show how the climate is warming, an Austrian scientist says.

http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?category=Sci-Tech&story=/news/2002/08/06/char_020806

Offline Maverick

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On global warming
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2002, 01:33:38 PM »
How long ago was the last ice age? How long before that was the warming period? Exactly how were the thermometers of those periods calibrated and who took the day to day, or even year to year measurements as well as monitor the weather patterns? I think you will find the answer is no one did. I find the claim of an accelerated rate of temperature increase to be highly suspect and rather subjective at best.

Just my opinion on this subject.
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Offline lazs2

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On global warming
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2002, 02:55:14 PM »
In the sixties when the scientists were pushing for the "ice age in the year 2000"  I am sure that their data was pretty inconclusive but I am also sure that by all the hand wringing and empahsizing of the worst data they all got big fat grants to research the certain ice age that was coming.

I agree that we should be responsible if for nothing else but to improve quality of life in areas that have poor circulation...   The problem comes when we give government any money for anything.   I can't think of one single thing that they do well or even... not horribly.  
lazs

Offline Shuckins

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On global warming
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2002, 03:40:41 PM »
How about getting the answer to the following questions before we start drawing any conclusions:

1.  Would a global rise of only one degree fahrenheit cause glaciers to start melting exponentially?

2.  Would the exponential rate of melt be caused by the decreasing size of the glaciers?  In other words, would the rate at which they melt accelerate as they lost mass?

3.  Since ozone is produced by natural processes, such as lightning and plant life, could ways be found to produce it?  

4.  Are you willing to live in a home of no more than 2000 square feet of floor space in order to conserve our forests?  

5.  Has the hole in the ozone layer in the southern hemisphere begun to decrease? I heard a report on Paul Harvey's broadcast that satellite imagery has shown that it shrank by about 1,000,000 square miles.  Is this true?  

6.  Since the hole in the ozone is commonly blamed on chloro-fluorocarbons, which are produced by natural processes (volcanic eruptions), as well as by industrial activity, how big a percentage of the CFC's in the atmosphere can be attributed to humans?

7.  Mount St. Helens' eruption was the largest volcanic event in the 20th century.  Since it happened in the recent past, could it have had an effect on the exponential raising of the temperature we have seen in the last 10 years?  How many CFC's did that event produce, if any?

8.  Given that many of the greenhouse gases are produced by internal-combustion engines, and that so much of our economy depends on the automobile, what practical alternatives are there to replace them?  Despite 30 years or more of research, electric cars remain impractical, and the electricity to recharge them must be produced in generating plants that raise other environmental concerns.  Wind generators are not practical for large-scale production of power.  And apparently the rotating blades kill large-numbers of birds.  What answers can you offer?



Regards, Shuckins

Offline Wlfgng

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On global warming
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2002, 03:50:45 PM »
1. yes (research done)

2. guessing yes

3. we can already do that (I do it all the time in my home even)

4. no

dunno about the middle stuff. ask a climatologist

8. electric cars are not 'feasible' or 'practical' because the oil companies don't want them to be.  In fact, I'm sure they are but until we bury the oil execs forget it.

Offline midnight Target

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On global warming
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2002, 04:00:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
How about getting the answer to the following questions before we start drawing any conclusions:




7.  Mount St. Helens' eruption was the largest volcanic event in the 20th century.  Since it happened in the recent past, could it have had an effect on the exponential raising of the temperature we have seen in the last 10 years?  How many CFC's did that event produce, if any?




Regards, Shuckins


This didn't sound right to me so I looked it up... I know, I'm kinda anal that way.

What was the largest volcanic eruption in the 20th century?"

The largest eruption in the world this century occurred in 1912 at Novarupta on the Alaska Peninsula. An estimated 15 cubic kilometers of magma was explosively erupted during 60 hours beginning on June 6 -- (which is equivalent to 230 years of eruption at Kilauea (Hawaii) or, about 30 times the volume erupted by Mount St. Helens (Washington) in 1980.) -- From: Wright and Pierson, 1992, USGS Circular 1073, and Brantley, 1994, Volcanoes of the United States: USGS General Interest Publication. )

Offline Thrawn

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On global warming
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2002, 04:56:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
How long ago was the last ice age? How long before that was the warming period? Exactly how were the thermometers of those periods calibrated and who took the day to day, or even year to year measurements as well as monitor the weather patterns? I think you will find the answer is no one did. I find the claim of an accelerated rate of temperature increase to be highly suspect and rather subjective at best.

Just my opinion on this subject.


Sure, but do you honestly think it is an informed opinion?  Or just a guess?

Offline MrBill

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On global warming
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2002, 05:22:03 PM »
Or we could just    go here and read the same debate from last month with no new information. :D

hope this works.
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