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Author Topic: Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)  (Read 177 times)

Offline SKurj

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« on: August 08, 2002, 01:43:07 PM »
Ok we've seen a ton of different flight sims over the years with many great features.

My question is this..

Why do we not see one developer borrow more ideas from another?

Example.. the AH view system..  Why hasn't another developer borrowed from AH?  is it pride? is it a legality issue?

Its often been said if X sim was combined with Y sim, it would be the ultimate!!  

Whats stopping this from happening?


SKurj
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Offline CptTrips

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2002, 01:49:53 PM »
Quote
Example.. the AH view system.. Why hasn't another developer borrowed from AH?


I think all developers should steal good ideas shamelessly from others.  No one owns a copyright on the idea, only the actual code that implemented it.  Ego is usually the impediment.

"Amateurs borrow, great artists STEAL!"  Pablo Picasso


Regards,
Wab
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Offline AKDejaVu

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2002, 02:19:48 PM »
Most air combat sims are a compelation of "borrowed" ideas or ideas that have been discussed thuroughly by the communities.

Face it.. they are all similar in some regard... but they don't sell the game based on how much like another one they are.  They sell based on how different they are.

AKDejaVu
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Offline gofaster

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Re: Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2002, 02:36:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj
Example.. the AH view system..  Why hasn't another developer borrowed from AH?  is it pride? is it a legality issue?
 


I always thought the AH view system was the same as the AW view system, just modified to allow the head to be re-positioned within a particular view.  If AW had survived, I'm sure this feature would've been included.  I don't think pride has much to do with it.

Of course, the real reason why one sim's feature may not be duplicated in another sim is intellectual property rights for work product.  It may not be trademarked, but the developer that incorporates the idea had better be prepared to prove that he developed it independently of the other guy.  Of course, to some degree parallel development is to be expected: using G for gear, H for hook, F for flaps...that's fairly easy to see where it came from.  Same with basic interfaces.  But when it comes to mission building tools, campaign a.i., and gameplay methodology, its very hard to prove that you developed something independently if its identical to what another guy puts out.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2002, 02:41:01 PM by gofaster »
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Offline Mickey1992

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2002, 02:52:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKWabbit

No one owns a copyright on the idea, only the actual code that implemented it.


Yeah, right.  Tell that to Amazon and their "1-ClickŪ" patent.  Competitors lost the lawsuit allowing them to try and develop similar functionality for their web sites.
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Offline hitech

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2002, 04:45:41 PM »
Patents,trademarks and copywrights all are very different beast.

Very few game/code/ui ideas are patented.

Almost all game ideas are extensions of ideas that came before.
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Offline senna

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2002, 04:59:43 PM »
Just wanted to thank HT for all the patches and etc... Game runs pretty good for me now and I'm enjoying it without the undue stress of the freezes and etc... That was probably the worst moment for me in AH, thank god its over with. Again, thanks for all of your hard work.

:rolleyes:
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Offline Smut

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2002, 10:57:59 AM »
As a former flight sim developer, I can tell you that I wasn't above borrowing a good idea from somewhere else...however, it's often not as easy as that.

For example, the AH view system. For it to work you need a full 3D cockpit. This is non-trivial to do for a modern jet, assuming you want the player to be able to read the various displays from all angles. It is also a huge frame rate hog.

While I'm not 100% certain, I think Jane's F-15 was one of if not the first "box-sim" to use the AW/WB style snap view system. :)

Another thought - Sometimes you can't do certain things because of limitations in the game engine.

-Smut
Designer, Jane's F-15
Lead Designer, Jane's F/A-18
Target, Aces High
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Offline Puck

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2002, 11:25:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Smut
-Smut
Designer, Jane's F-15
Lead Designer, Jane's F/A-18
Target, Aces High


Good.  I got F-15 loaded, but the installer keeps mumbling about how Janes F/A-18 won't load on my Win2k system.  Fix it for me.  :D
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)+(___<<___<<___<<___)-___);__+=___)putchar((_[__
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Offline Scott E

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2002, 11:38:01 AM »
S! smut great work on f15 and f18
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Offline Creamo

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2002, 12:06:10 PM »
Example.. the AH view system.. Why hasn't another developer borrowed from AH?

IL-2 caters to the realism crowd I'm guessing.
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Offline gofaster

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2002, 12:53:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Smut
-Smut
Designer, Jane's F-15
Lead Designer, Jane's F/A-18
Target, Aces High


You'll be glad to know that I'm still using Jane's F-15, Officer's Edition with the fancy patches, postcards, printed manual, Prima Strategy Guide, and such.

Terrain and object graphics are a bit below today's standards but the gameplay is timeless.  Not bad for a game copyrighted in 1998. :)

And you're right - the snap view system didn't come along to jets until Jane's F-15 came out.  Before that it was either padlock or using the Function keys to see back, left, or right.
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Offline SKurj

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2002, 01:03:22 PM »
Creamo +)  what has that got to do with anything?

Surely if Oleg did take HT's view system he'd modify it (surely u don't think the folks over there would just replicate it do u?)

And besides a head on a stick is not realistic ..


SKurj
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Offline Smut

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« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2002, 02:28:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Puck


Good.  I got F-15 loaded, but the installer keeps mumbling about how Janes F/A-18 won't load on my Win2k system.  Fix it for me.  :D


Sorry...while I'm pretty sure it can be done (as I recall seeing posts on how to do it on the 'net), I can't remember how they did it. I've never done it myself.

The simhq.com F/A-18 forum is still pretty active, try asking someone over there.

-Smut
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Offline Daff

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Sim developer's pride?? (comments HT?)
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2002, 03:23:37 PM »
"I think Jane's F-15 was one of if not the first "box-sim" to use the AW/WB style snap view system."

Didnt Hornet 1.0 come out before Jane's F-15?. (Before WB anyway)

Daff
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