Urgent advice needed - very serious post.

[hblair]

Arfann and Thrawn, how many boys have you parented? In my experience, people who are so adament about corporal punishment being abusive either have no real experience parenting boys or they have no problem with letting their children misbehave in public.

[Dnil]

hehe your not a parent until you have 2 kids, its a whole different world.

IMHO the majority of "timeout" kids I have delt with are a pain.  Just a bunch of freaking monkeys.  Ritual beating IMHO is wrong but sometimes a quick pop on the fanny does wonders.  When I only had my oldest running around, life was grand, she was an angel.  We did the "timeout" thing with her, worked pretty good.  Then our 2nd came along, uggh sibling rivalry.  Time out just didn't work.  So I went off of how I was raised, i.e. "wait till daddy comes home".  Man did that solve a lot of problems.  But kids are all individuals and different things work for different reasons.

Oh and I found the ticket thing works good also.  Give them each 10 tickets, take some away if they do wrong and give some if they do right.  At the end of the week, ones with all ten tickets get some type of treat.

[Kratzer]

BS hblair.  You can control a situation without striking your kids - if you think it's necessary, you aren't thinking hard enough.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by hblair
Arfann and Thrawn, how many boys have you parented? In my experience, people who are so adament about corporal punishment being abusive either have no real experience parenting boys or they have no problem with letting their children misbehave in public.

And there are plenty that thrust their illbehaved children on the public, something I'll never understand.

[midnight Target]

Well I can count on one hand the number of times I've used a "wake up call" and I have 4 kids. Worked when needed, usually not needed.

And mine turned out ok, only 3 are in prison and the one is bringing home good money at the "Peppermint Club" whatever that is?

 

Sorry Thrawn, you can raise your kids your way, but a swat on the butt is NOT harmful to their psyche.

[eskimo2]

I have a 3 year old and 8 month old, both girls.  
I have also taught high-risk 1st grade for 3 years (20+ kids, plenty of "evil" boys  ).

I would turn mom in.  (As an educator, I am legally required to report suspicions of abuse/neglect.)

Sounds to me like the three year old has already learned to respond to situations with violence.  Wonder where he got that from?

eskimo

[AKIron]

Originally posted by eskimo2
I have a 3 year old and 8 month old, both girls.  
I have also taught high-risk 1st grade for 3 years (20+ kids, plenty of "evil" boys  ).

I would turn mom in.  (As an educator, I am legally required to report suspicions of abuse/neglect.)

Sounds to me like the three year old has already learned to respond to situations with violence.  Wonder where he got that from?

eskimo

Come on Eskimo, are you suggesting that every 3 year old that bites or hits another child has been abused?  

Kids do not interact well socially by nature, not how we want them to anyhow. They are selfish and must be taught.

[hblair]

Originally posted by Kratzer
BS hblair.  You can control a situation without striking your kids - if you think it's necessary, you aren't thinking hard enough.

"Striking" Come on man. Not all kids behave the same. Not all kids are at a maturity level that they can be reasoned with.
I have a cousin who decided along with his wife on the "hands off" approach to discipline. They time-out their boy to death. He was over at my parents last summer with his grandmother screaming and yelling and pitching a big 'ol fit when it was time to leave. His parents weren't there. He had zero respect for his grandmother and the kids like 7 or 8 years old. Sorry, but the hands-free approach doesn't work in all cases. Now, it might make you feel warm and cozy, but the kid doesn't always benefit. Some people just can't get past the pop of a hand on a rear end. It seems so barbaric I guess. When I was a kid I knew the difference between my mom swatting my rear and me hitting my brother with a balled up fist. I knew it was punishment.  There were no lasting effects from it. I knew it wasn't abuse. I knew this at 5 or 6 yrs old. Why can't mature adults figure this out? It's not that hard really. We've become too educated for our own good.

[hblair]

Oh yeah, my cousins son who has never been spanked can fight like a mofo. He got into it with my 6 yr old, and was actually slinging fists. My "corporally disciplined" boy was outclassed. The kids a spoiled brat and mom and dad are in for a world of hurt when he gets to be a teen.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Well I can count on one hand the number of times I've used a "wake up call" and I have 4 kids. Worked when needed, usually not needed.

Sorry Thrawn, you can raise your kids your way, but a swat on the butt is NOT harmful to their psyche.

Quit couching terms.  You have commited an act of violence on your child, in order to control their behaviour.  If you've never hear of non-coersive methods before then using punitive measures is understandable, you might not have realized there are other methods.  Now you do.

hblair, I don't consider anyone qualifed to give parental advice or even call them self a parent until the have raised 15 boys and 13 girls.
The number of children a person has in no way reflects their ability as a parent.  It only reflects their ability to imprenate thier wife or get pregnant.

And for every anecdotal story someone has about how a child that was hit as a child turned out great, I have one for a child that wasn't hit turned out great as well.  The difference is that one child was hit by their parents and the other was not.

Commiting acts of violence on your child is a moral choice.  We know that you don't HAVE to do it and still have a well adjusted child.  There are OTHER methods.  Anything else is just an excuse.

[Hangtime]

My advice for Mike.. you already mentioned you'd follow up with the chaplain, and i agree with other posters here that indicated it's quite possible the mom, under extreme stress; overeacted.

anything in disciplining kids done to an extreme is harmful. This includes violence and 'just giving then time outs'. If whatever you are doing ain't getting results, you'd better by-god back the truck up and try a diffrent route, pronto.

having said that, I'm a firm beliver in 'spare the rod, spoil the child'.

I have seen and experienced far to much physical abuse as a kid. My dad was exceptionally violent, as a result; I had huge misgivings about smacking my kid. Unfortunately, my wife had similar experiences as a child, she was not at all inclined to swat the kid when she got outta line.. and was absolutely insistent that I never smack our kid. Ever. For any reason whatsoever. She read somehwere in a diddlyin book that abused kids grow up to be abusvie parents. she was determined that that would not happen.

I have a teenage daughter.. she certainly is an example of 'spare the rod'.. At the age of three, the kid was a spoiled rotten lil brat. If any child need an occasional well timed ass-wuppin; mine sure did. One time at the age of six, she ran out of the house, chasing after an ice-cream truck; with money she took from the kitchen counter that did not belong to her, with her mother right behind her yelling and screamin "stop". She was hit by a car. Not my kid. My wife. The kid, oblivious; got the ice-cream.. I got the hospital bill. The kid was never punished.

You know how many times I had cautioned her mother to THAT point that 'one day, you'll tell that child to 'stop', and she wont and THEN...'

*sigh*

At the age of 14, this same kid stole my now ex-wifes car. When my ex-wife called me, and asked me to join in the search, I told her to call the police. She refused. I called them anyway. Then I went lookin for the kid. Found my ex's car, at the mall, pulling outta the parkinglot, with some other kid behind the wheel of the car, which was packed with other losers. My kid was in the backseat, on another boys lap.

I cut the car off, walked up to the divers side and pulled the keys out, told the other kids to get lost and told my kid to get into the jeep. On the way home, my kid wigged out.. I'm doing 60mph on the highway; my kid goes hysterical and starts struggling with me for control of the jeep. The attack was very sudden.. I nearly lost control, and I backhanded her so hard in reaction I broke her nose. She collapsed instantly, sobbing.. shocked I'd actually hit her. First words out her mouth were "I'm going to have you arrested!!" First (and last time) I ever laid a hand on that kid in anger.

When I got her home, it was a good thing I had called the police.. (they were there, getting a stolen vehicle report from my flabergasted ex-wife) because her mother was ready to have ME arrested after just one look and not even asking for an explanation. "You had no reason"... before she even attempted to determine what happened; I was the bad guy. When I explained the situation to the cop his look of disgust focused on my ex-wife wilted her and my daughter instantly. Regardless.. if that car had not been registered in my name, I'd probably have been arrested. In this sick PC world, I'm responsible, and guilty till proven innocent. If we are to believe what Ant says "there is no reason to ever strike a child" I can point to a community full of Dr. Spocks lil monsters and say with not just a lil indignation "See what you helped create?"

Spare the rod?? Horseshit. Puppy misbehaves, puppy gets smacked with a newspaper. Works fer puppys, works for kids. Should you chose to 'not' disipline children before the age of 5, you can all to easily get a kid like mine.

Life sucks big time. Some problems, even when you know what the solutions are; remain beyond the ability of mere mortals to obtain. One things for sure.. Dr Spock, my ex-wife and all their smarmy protoges are still right up there on my "worlds most derserving of swift kicks in the ass" list.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Hangtime
Spare the rod?? Horseshit. Puppy misbehaves, puppy gets smacked with a newspaper. Works fer puppys, works for kids.

No wonder she turned out the way she did, you were probably feeding her the kibble and the dog bacon and eggs.  Dogs are not people and people are not dogs.  By that logic if your kid bites someone you should get out the ol' rifle and put them down.

Should you chose to 'not' disipline children before the age of 5, you can all to easily get a kid like mine.[/B]

Or not.  Very interesting story but it's completely inductively biased.

For what it's worth, if my 14 year old kid freaked out in our car and stared grabbing for the wheel, I would have decked them.  Instincts or not.

Edit: The one question we'll never be able to answer is, how your daughter would have turned out if you hit her as a form of punishment.

[sidthekid]

Thrawn Tell me how you decided that any parent who  spanks a child is committing abuse. And What gives you the Right to tell those who do spank how to raise their children.

1. Are you going to pay for blown up Mailboxes

2. Are you going to pay for and take care of Their babies

3. You going to come to my house and search for daughter when she stays out late.

4. You going to come to the School when teachers call and say we are having problems getting your children to behave?

5. You going to be there when they abuse animals and then gradulate to humans?

6. You going to be there when they slap their mother. ( tell me one parent whos child hasn't swung in angry once)

7. You going to be there and put out fire they may start.

Last when they are killed by stanger or hit by a car or jump off bridge to swim and drown. You going to come to our houses And mend our hearts and souls. And take away are regrets?




 If you can;t answer yes to all the above.You have no right to condemn anyone for how they choose to raise THIER CHILDREN.......


 And any parent knows this is a never ending list. You do your best and get help if needed that is all any child needs.







Now for my own children If they got a spanking it was after 3 strike rule. Tried other forms if they continued to do same thing third time it was spaking and then a talk on how and why they were spanked.  My oldest Daughter got spanking for smoking. Her responce to other forms were its my body, everyone else doing it. Did the grounding took away TV. took away phone. 3rd time I found her smoking she got spanking next time she got spanking in front of friends when she was caught with them. Then only only then did she got the hint she was not going to smoke until she left home.  Now She  has her Masters and is going on to her PHD in Chemical Engineering.  she has told me many times now she was glad I cared enough and loved her enough to protect her from smoking and other things.




 Now I kids I grew up with had spankings and turned out as bad as they come. I believe that they wouldv'e been like this with or without spankings. most of the bad kids I saw growing up it was ones that parents never around unless it was to spank or to talk after they were all ready in trouble.

[Mighty1]

Time out works with some kids but not for others. The same thing can be said for spankings.

I think it should be left up to the parent since they are the ones that know their kids the best.

If you see her beat him regularly then by all means call the cops but for one incident that was a high stress situation I think I would let it go.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by sidthekid
Thrawn Tell me how you decided that any parent who  spanks a child is committing abuse.

Child abuse

n : the physical or emotional or sexual mistreatment of children
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

And What gives you the Right to tell those who do spank how to raise their children.

The fact that no staff member of HTC has told me to stfu up...yet.  It's not like I can MAKE anyone on this board do anything.  I haven't even TOLD them to do anything.  I have suggested a course of action, (researching non-coersive technics).  That it.


 

If you can;t answer yes to all the above.You have no right to condemn anyone for how they choose to raise THIERCHILDREN.......

I will not answer your question as they all have an underlying assusmption that I do not agree with.  That these things WILL come to pass if you don't use punitive methods raising you children.