Urgent advice needed - very serious post.

[eskimo2]

P.S.
Time-Out should be 1 minute per year of age.

I always tell me daughter why she is going into time-out (and why we shouldn't do whatever).  Then she has to tell me the same.  At the end of the 3 minutes, she again has to tell me why she went into time-out (and why we shouldn't do whatever).  
Then a hug, I confirm to her that I love her, but she needs to behave as expected.

eskimo

[Ripsnort]

Agreed Eskimo (with the threat of loss of priveleges)  I have spanked both my boys, but the offense has to be a severe one...once my oldest when 4 yrs old threw sand in our dogs eyes as the dog stood next to the sand box...I warned him not to do that again, threatened him with loss of privelige (forget what was "hot" with him then..)..of course he did it again out of defiance..so another warning was given..he did it a third time as another show of defiance so I walked up and gave him a swat on the butt.  The desired behavior was achieved, he never threw sand at the dog or his face again. He won't be damaged for life but my dog doesn't get near the sand box anymore!

[Thrawn]

[you are also correct.. it's not at all possible to change my mind regarding appropriate parental behavior.. yes, I woulda paddled lil jonnies heiny, ended play time AND explained to lil johnny why he got spanked and how he should behave. Reasoning alone with a 2 year old is kinda like dealing with politicians. You need not just a carrot, but the presence of the stick to get anywhere. No stick, no performance. No carrot, nothin to work for. ]

See in my opinion the *stick* is leaving/no toy/cousin won't play with you.

And thanks for being civil yourself.  See people play with you when you are nice to them.

Tang

[Red Ant]

I'm seeing an interesting trend here: Most of the "pro-spanking" people have themselves been physically disciplined as children, while most of the "anti-spankers" have not. Draw your own conclusions

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Red Ant
I'm seeing an interesting trend here: Most of the "pro-spanking" people have themselves been physically disciplined as children, while most of the "anti-spankers" have not. Draw your own conclusions

Yeah, like liberals are not spanked, and conservatives are, no wonder y'all are messed up!

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Sikboy


Although I do not agree with much of Yrawn's bluster, he's wining me over in this thread.  I was spanked, and it worked well enough I suppose, but I'd like to give it a go down a different path. Then again, I don't have any kids yet, so we'll see lol.

-Sikboy

I'm affraid I can't take credit as that quote was posted by my wife, who is smarter than me by half.  I think I'll follow her lead on this and say, thanks for listening.

[wulfie]

wulfie <--- not ever having kids.

1. Far too strenuos from what I have read here.
2. At the age of 3 I'd be too much of an ally. Kid: "I want only ice cream for dinner Dad!". Wulfie: "Hey, that's a pretty damn good idea..." 8)

Mike/wulfie

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by wulfie
wulfie <--- not ever having kids.

1. Far too strenuos from what I have read here.
2. At the age of 3 I'd be too much of an ally. Kid: "I want only ice cream for dinner Dad!". Wulfie: "Hey, that's a pretty damn good idea..." 8)

Mike/wulfie

Wulfie, at age 25-30, I was convinced I would NEVER EVER EVER have children...well, that changed.  They're work, but its work that is pleasurable...to see your own kin, to mold and shape them, to give them a world full of the pleasures you enjoyed as a kid, you just can't describe it to a non-parent.

And as for #2, its okay to have ice cream for dinner once in awhile!

[Kanth]

As to the spanking versus timeout discussion..

I'm not a parent, nor will I ever be =)

So I asked my best resource in this matter.

My mom =)

Here is her response
------------------
Me:   Did you ever spank me as a child?

Mom:   No, I told you why what you did was wrong and made you stand in the corner or go in your room and think about it.

Me:   What about when I was too young to understand?

Mom:   You always understood "no". but when you were that young you didn't do anything that bad. If you did, I just screamed, tore at my hair and left the room.
----------------

That's pretty much how I respond to other people's kids so now I know where I got it from...

[eskimo2]

Somewhere in this thread I think I read where someone was talking about a mom in a grocery store whose kid was flipping out and she was ignoring him...

If anyone thinks that this is the alternative of not spanking, then you are mistaken.   Ignoring your child most likely is an example of simply not parenting at all.  Or at least its an example of a child rearing philosophy that is as different from spanking as it is from positive reinforcement/loss of privilege.

eskimo

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Red Ant
I'm seeing an interesting trend here: Most of the "pro-spanking" people have themselves been physically disciplined as children, while most of the "anti-spankers" have not. Draw your own conclusions

I'm an exception to your trend... My parents used belts, hands, switches.. you name it.

I don't hit my kids.

[wsnpr]

Originally posted by wulfie
Okay I'd like to hear from any of you guys who are Parents. I've got a potential situation here that I have zero experience with.

I'm staying in some military housing right now, i.e. real houses but the whole street is NATO military.

Next door neighbors have 2 kids. One kid gets messed up playing in front yard. Neighbors know I've got medical training and Mom comes running next door.

2 Kids, big Brother is 3 and little Brother (the injured one) is 2.

Kids don't know me from Adam and I'm trying to calm the 2 year old down to get a good look at his injury.

Well, my probing no doubt caused a little pain, and the 2 year old doesn't know me and I was awoken from a deep nap (bad hair, 2100 shadow, etc.).

So the 2 year old hollars real loud, and the 3 year old kicks me in the nose as hard as he can (I'm bent over). He thought I was hurting his Brother. Cool in my book - seemed like the kid had good instincts.

Well, the Mom grabs the 3 year old by one arm and really yanks him aside. Like his neck cracked like a whip. And then she slaps him hard on the cheek and spanks him *really* hard on his butt...for kicking me.

You have to understand I had no reaction to the kick. The 2 year old had a busted bone and was wearing PJs and I was worried about a cpd fracture (limb at odd angle along a normally straight axis) so I was paying close attention to rolling up the PJs very very carefully (nothing on me to cut them away - again - woken up from nap and all my gear under my rack).

So Mom really smacked him hard. Like 3 fingers visible on the kid's cheek.

Only reason I'm asking this here is if it's no big deal I don't want to cause grief for the Ps of this kid due to a baseless accusation from someone who never has raised Kids. If I asked anyone I worked with they'd know who I'm talking about most likely. And the rumor mill can be a squeak, no?

Mom seems nice and very attentive to Kids. Could have been reaction because she was scared about 2 year old. That's my (totally uneducated) guess. Yanking/smacking the 3 year old seemed very extreme to me at the time, especially when the 3 year olds intentions were so good in my book.

So is this 'child abuse' and should I talk to someone official about it?

Feel free to ask more detailed questions if you need to for the sake of making a good call.

I've babysitted my Cousin's Son a fair deal when he was 1-2. Never saw anything like this (really soft smack on the butt to get attention is all).

Any opinions/advice gratefully accepted.

Mike/wulfie

From your account, it sounds like child abuse. The 3 yr old learned the violence (kicking you in the face) probably from his parents. Kids usually react to how they're treated. Usually kids will let their parents do the reacting and not react (with violence) on their own, especially against an adult.

Well, the Mom grabs the 3 year old by one arm and really yanks him aside. Like his neck cracked like a whip. And then she slaps him hard on the cheek and spanks him *really* hard on his butt...for kicking me.

Sorry but how will you feel if those kids end up in the morgue? Better safe than sorry. Report it to the proper authorities.
We're not talking a 'smack' on the butt to get the little one's attention. We're talking:
1) Yanking the kid so hard that his neck cracked like a whip.
2) Slaps the kid so hard on the cheek that an imprint of 3 fingers were visible afterwards.
3) Spanks really hard on his butt.
What's amazing to me is that most of you don't consider this child abuse. What will happen next time (if this parent continues this sort of behavior) when the little kid's brain hemorages from being shaken too often and hard? What about a skull fracture the next time the kid gets hit across the face a little harder or with an object?
Report it. The kids deserve an investigation to see if the parents are a threat.
A final thought. Imagine you are the father of those kids and do not realize that your wife is abusive like you described. I am sure you'd probably sue the neighbor who ignored such abuse 'because he didn't want to get involved.'
Your first instinct is right, you KNOW that was abuse, that is why you are asking about it.
Report it, the kids deserve better. If this was a one time thing, this will start a paper trail against future 'punishments.'

Regards,
wSNPR

[Kieran]

Yup, getting that boy removed from his parents' home and giving mom a criminal record for something that probably was out of the ordinary is always a good idea. God forbid you should ever be in a similar situation with one of your kids.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by Kieran
Yup, getting that boy removed from his parents' home and giving mom a criminal record for something that probably was out of the ordinary is always a good idea. God forbid you should ever be in a similar situation with one of your kids.

Kieran,
Your a teacher right?
Haven't you ever had students who were probably better off without their parents?

eskimo

[Eagler]

jump up, roundhouse kick the mother in the face and call it even