Author Topic: Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)  (Read 1287 times)

Offline Sandman

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2002, 03:14:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
I'm not sure what the Constitution has to do with Viet Nam.

 Before you put on the green suit. You take an oath to defend the constitution. AND to follow the orders of the commander and chief. Where he says go,you go. If you are a U.S. Solider, you have to have faith in the People to not put a nitwit in the White house. Remember, many of the guys were drafted.  They took the oath. And they lived up to it. Despite how they might have felt about that particular war.


No argument from me on this point. You take the oath, you follow the orders.

The issue is the draft and whether you owe military service or not. The non-military types take no oaths to defend the constitution nor follow the orders of the president.
sand

Offline Thrawn

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2002, 06:29:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
nd tell me why Canada is running a violent crime rate of 981.7 and those wild and violent Yanks are running a violent crime rate of 506.1 in 2000?

Is that a social problem or what?  :)


Sure I can tell you why.  Our definition of violent crime, for the statistics you quoted, includes all levels of assults and sexual assults.  The US stats are only for aggrivated assults and forcible rapes.  

And easymo, yes we a serious bomb problem here.  Yesterday when I was walking to the store, 15 of them blew near me...honestly though, I can't remember the last time a bomb went off in Canada.  FLQ crisis maybe?

Edit: Just found some stats from the US Justice departments page, that include simple assults.

In the year 2000 the US violent crime rate was 2790 compared to Canada's 981.7.  

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/vsxtab.htm


Anyway, it was an off the cuff remark and if I offended anyone I apologise.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2002, 06:42:59 AM by Thrawn »

Offline Toad

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2002, 09:09:36 AM »
Thrawn, both Canada and the US use the Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program. It's standardized so you can compare apples to apples.

US:

VIOLENT CRIME TOTAL

DEFINITION

Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. All violent crimes involve force or threat of
force.


Year 2000  
Number of offenses: 1,424,289
Rate per 100,000 = 506.1  

Source:

VIOLENT CRIME TOTAL (US/FBI)


Canada:



Crimes of Violence

Rate per 100,000 = 981.8

Source:

Crimes of violence (Statistics Canada)

Remember these are both according to the UCR standard.. it's essentiallyl "apples to apples."

Canadian assaults:

"Assault level 1" is the first level of assault. It constitutes the intentional application of force without consent, attempt or threat to apply force to another person, and openly wearing a weapon (or an imitation) and accosting or impeding another person.

"Assault with weapon or causing bodily harm" is the second level of assault. It constitutes assault with a weapon, threats to use a weapon (or an imitation), or assault causing bodily harm.

"Aggravated assault level 3" is the third level of assault. It applies to anyone who wounds, maims, disfigures or endangers the life of complainant.

US assaults:

Aggravated assault is an unlawful attack by one person upon another for the purpose of inflicting severe or aggravated bodily injury. This type of assault is usually accompanied by the use of a weapon or by means likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

Attempts are included since it is not necessary that an injury result when a gun, knife, or other weapon is used which could and probably would result in serious personal injury if the crime were successfully completed.

*****
Sounds pretty close there. Anything that would be counted as "assault" in either place looks like it would show up the same way in the other place.

 You have a case on the sexual assault though.
******

Canada sexual assaults:

"the definition of sexual assault was broadened in the 1993survey to better capture these incidents as defined by the Criminal Code: while the 1988 survey asked onlyabout experiences of "rape", the 1993 survey asked about forced sexual activity and unwanted sexualtouching.the definition of sexual assault was broadened in the 1993 survey to better capture these incidents as defined by the Criminal Code: while the 1988 survey asked onlyabout experiences of "rape", the 1993 survey asked about forced sexual activity and unwanted sexualtouching.

US sexual assaults:

FORCIBLE RAPE

DEFINITION

Forcible rape, as defined in the Uniform Crime Reporting Program, is the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.

Assaults or attempts to commit rape by force or
threat of force are also included; however, statutory rape (without force) and other sex offenses are excluded.

********

However, if you toss out the entire "sex offenses" category...

Canada, 78 & 10 per 100,000 in those two Canadian sex categories and toss out the US sex category 32 per 100,000......

it still doesn't change the fact that Canada has significantly more violent crime than the US.

What would it be then? About 900 vs 470?

Careful slinging those rocks around your glass house, eh?

Edited for the specificity that a reply to Thrawn demands. :)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2002, 09:30:29 AM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Thrawn

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2002, 10:04:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Canadian assaults:

"Assault level 1" is the first level of assault. It constitutes the intentional application of force without consent, attempt or threat to apply force to another person, and openly wearing a weapon (or an imitation) and accosting or impeding another person.

"Assault with weapon or causing bodily harm" is the second level of assault. It constitutes assault with a weapon, threats to use a weapon (or an imitation), or assault causing bodily harm.

"Aggravated assault level 3" is the third level of assault. It applies to anyone who wounds, maims, disfigures or endangers the life of complainant.

US assaults:

Aggravated assault is an unlawful attack by one person upon another for the purpose of inflicting severe or aggravated bodily injury. This type of assault is usually accompanied by the use of a weapon or by means likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

Attempts are included since it is not necessary that an injury result when a gun, knife, or other weapon is used which could and probably would result in serious personal injury if the crime were successfully completed.



Pretty close?  Yes.

But, our Assult level one is more akin to your Simple Assaults then it is to your Aggravated Assaults.

Definition: Simple assault is an assault or an attempted assault where no weapon is used and whichdoes not result in serious or aggravated injury to the victim.

In your numbers, the Canadian stats have Assults level one included, but the US stats don't have Simple Assults included.
In mine Simple Assults are included in the US stats.

Offline Toad

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2002, 10:37:48 AM »
So where are the Canadian assault stats broken down by category so we can make it apples to apples without simple assault.

I found where you can order that report but I can't find a site that has it readily available.

What can you find?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2002, 11:21:56 AM »
the reason crime is up in the socialist  countries is because socialism is destroying those countries economies.  
lazs

Offline Thrawn

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2002, 11:50:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
So where are the Canadian assault stats broken down by category so we can make it apples to apples without simple assault.

I found where you can order that report but I can't find a site that has it readily available.

What can you find?


Nothing yet.

Offline midnight Target

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2002, 12:02:06 PM »
Well there is that one major downside to Canada......



















They have a much higher percentage of Canadians per capita.



:p

Offline bounder

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2002, 12:13:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
the reason crime is up in the socialist  countries is because socialism is destroying those countries economies.  
lazs


Yes, that's right. And there was me thinking that even the word 'crime' is so relative that drawing absolute conclusions about it, let alone its origins was utterly futile.

:)

Offline bounder

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2002, 12:16:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Voss
Just imagine, for a moment, the effect of concealed weapons as a legal right. 9/11 comes around, three guys pull out box-cutters, two-hundred passengers pull out 10mm Glocks.

You'd get 3 dead terrorists and about 200 holes in the fuselage...not to mention bullets through your martini.

Offline Sandman

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2002, 12:56:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort


So common sense is finally overcoming greed in the Gov't sections of the Military?  Wow! Go USA! ;)


Let's see if I can read more into this than you might have said...

Liberals have common sense and conservatives are greedy? :D
sand

Offline midnight Target

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2002, 02:36:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Voss


Yeah, I feel sorry for her too. She sells herself, regularly, is addicted to needle crank, and sent her kids to her convict ex-boyfriend already convicted of child-abuse.

'Little regard' doesn't quite touch it, but then again there's what I think of you. ;)


Actually I was commenting on your stab at a woman's right to vote. But you probably knew that. I honestly have more in common with you than I would have expected. Only difference is, I took the kids and have had full custody since 1990.

I was gonna make some flip comment but this sounds way too familiar. I'm the luckiest divorcee on Earth.

Offline weazel

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Government job = greed?
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2002, 08:47:35 PM »
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ripsnort


So common sense is finally overcoming greed in the Gov't sections of the Military? Wow! Go USA!  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't get it, I signed up for retroactively for several government jobs after ETS'ing from the Army.

Several years later I recieved a notice that one of the posistions was available, after checking into it I learned that I would make $2.00 per hour less compared to the pressroom stupidvisor posistion I held at the time. :p

Offline Sandman

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2002, 08:53:43 PM »
You hit the nail on the head Weazel. I've been hearing the same story for years. We can't hire the right people because we don't pay high enough.

Then they throw numbers at us like... 75% of the workforce will retire in the next five years.

Oh... yeah... widespread panic... dogs and cats living together...
sand

Offline lazs2

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Another Charlton Heston speech (tremble liberals)
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2002, 09:44:33 AM »
bounder... much rather have a little more ventalation than ram some skyscraper... but... People with concealed carry permits have a very good record for hitting what they aim at.   Last I looked it was about 80%..  better than cops even.   they tend to be very cautious with their shooting as they know the legal reprecusions.   They also tend to be aficianados that shoot recreationaly.  

 I would love to know that in any place I went that 5-10% of the people around me were concealed carry permit holders.   I would like to know that 5-10% of the teachers at my childs (oops, grandchilds) school were concealed carry permit holders.   as for the school situation....

I would trade one concealed carry permit holder for 1, 000 good liberal debaters like SB or mt  in a school shooting situation.    Good intentions are worthless as are excusses and silly laws.  
lazs