Author Topic: would you like a bar code or tatoo?  (Read 576 times)

Offline Sabre

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would you like a bar code or tatoo?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2002, 09:22:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 10Bears
Sabre finally figuring out these ain't your daddy's Republicans


Actually, I haven't "figured out" anything yet.  I'm still researching the whole issue.  As I imply above, the circumstances surrounding the detention of Padilla, a US citizen taken into custody on US soil, has me concerned.  Based on the information I've gathered so far, I believe the AG's office and the Administration have improperly applied the term "enemy combatant" to Padilla.  I also believe the courts will not uphold that status in the end.  I also suspect, a suspicion born out by my digging around the news links, that the Government is trying to stall as long as they can moving Padilla's case out from under the "enemy combatant" definition.  They're likely hoping to get more inforemation out of him in their ongoing hunt for terrorist plots/operatives.  I think that's pushing the envelope too far, and am not afraid to say so, despite my continued overall support of the President, and of the Republican party.  On the otherhand I will not condem the entire conservative ideology just because a conservative public servant has pushed his authority too far.  If I and everyone else did that, there'd be no one left in either the Democratic or Republican parties, would there?

As for "Ashcrot's hellish vision," so far, except for the Turley article, I've found nothing substantiating supposed AG Office plans to set up these so-called camps.  That part of the story looks and smells like simple fear-mongering by the Adminstration's political opposition.

Oh, and 10Bears my old friend, we could also talk about your daddy's Democrats, i.e. FDR and the internment camps.  Some accused FDR of having a "hellish vision" for America, and of using WWII as an excuse to demolish the constitution.  Instead, why don't we all just stay informed and insure such things don't happen in this country again.  In any event, I have faith that the checks and balances within the three branches of the Federal Government will do what they're supposed to do.
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline Sabre

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Additional info on Padilla story...
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2002, 01:05:02 PM »
Link to 1942 court finding regarding “enemy combatants” during World War II. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=317&invol=1

Exerpts from court finging:

The following facts appear from the petitions or are stipulated. Except as noted they are undisputed.

“All the petitioners were born in Germany; all have lived in the United States. All returned to Germany between 1933 and 1941. All except petitioner Haupt are admittedly citizens of the German Reich, with which the United States is at war. Haupt came to this country with his parents when he was five years old; it is contended that he became a citizen of the United States by virtue of the naturalization of his parents during his minority and that he has not since lost his citizenship. The Government, however, takes the position that on attaining his majority he elected to maintain German allegiance and citizenship or in any case that he has by his conduct renounced or abandoned his United States citizenship. See Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325, 334 , 59 S.Ct. 884, 889; United States ex rel. Rojak v. Marshall, D.C., 34 F.2d 219; United States ex rel. Scimeca v. Husband, 2 Cir., 6 F.2d 957, 958; 8 U.S.C. 801, 8 U.S. C.A. 801, and compare 8 U.S.C. 808, 8 U.S.C.A. 808. For reasons presently to be stated we do not find it necessary to resolve these contentions. [317 U.S. 1, 21]   After the declaration of war between the United States and the German Reich, petitioners received training at a sabotage school near Berlin, Germany, where they were instructed in the use of explosives and in methods of secret writing. Thereafter petitioners, with a German citizen, Dasch, proceeded from Germany to a seaport in Occupied France, where petitioners Burger, Heinck and Quirin, together with Dasch, boarded a German submarine which proceeded across the Atlantic to Amagansett Beach on Long Island, New York. The four were there landed from the submarine in the hours of darkness, on or about June 13, 1942, carrying with them a supply of explosives, fuses and incendiary and timing devices. While landing they wore German Marine Infantry uniforms or parts of uniforms. Immediately after landing they buried their uniforms and the other articles mentioned and proceeded in civilian dress to New York City.”

“The President, as President and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, by Order of July 2, 1942,2 appointed a Military Commission and directed it to try petitioners for offenses against the law of war and the Articles of War, and prescribed regulations for the procedure on the trial and for review of the record of the trial and of any judgment or sentence of the Commission. On the same day, by Proclamation,3 the President declared that 'all persons who are subjects, citizens or residents of any nation at war with the United States or who give obedience to or act under the direction of any such nation, [317 U.S. 1, 23]   and who during time of war enter or attempt to enter the United States ... through coastal or boundary defenses, and are charged with committing or attempting or preparing to commit sabotage, espionage, hostile or warlike acts, or violations of the law of war, shall be subject to the law of war and to the jurisdiction of military tribunals'.”

Courts decision:

“(1) That the charges preferred against petitioners on which they are being tried by military commission appointed by the order of the President of July 2, 1942, allege an offense or offenses which the President is authorized to order tried before a military commission. (2) That the military commission was lawfully constituted. (3) That petitioners are held in lawful custody, for trial before the military commission, and have not shown cause for being discharged by writ of habeas corpus. The motions for leave to file petitions for writs of habeas corpus are denied. The orders of the District Court are affirmed. The mandates are directed to issue forthwith.”

Further news articles on the case of Jose Padilla..

http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/14/padilla.justice/index.html

and another…

http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/11/prisoner.status/index.html

As you can see from the above info, the Government believes it has precident on it's side...to a point.  The Justice Dept. has also said publically that Padilla would be allowed access to an attourney, in order to discuss the applicability of the term "enemy combatant" to his case.  The main danger I see in the whole issue is that there's no clear process in place in determining if the Government's declaration of "enemy combatant" is justified.  It did not appear to answer this question in the court findings.  Obviously the potential for abuse of such a broad power is high.  Again, that's what the courts are for, and a free and unfettered media.
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline easymo

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would you like a bar code or tatoo?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2002, 02:12:10 PM »
I sometimes wonder if leftys squirm as much, knowing that Jesse Jackson is a liberal, as I do, knowing that Ashcroft is a conservative.