FW190 and the insta flip flopping

[air_ReCoile]

Right on Wilbuz. Fast rolling is not flip flopping, neither is stall turning. If ya can't handle the fast maneuvering planes, zoom out and make a new attack, or slow down (risky) and wait for the right shot (it will come)

[Fatty]

That's because your old and can't see anyway, hblair.

The flop comes around occasionally, but is usually a last ditch attempt.  Pulling up a little til he gets done flopping about usually works fine, and he's much slower and easier to pick apart then.

[Kweassa]

Hmm.. weren't those "change of directions using tremendous roll rate moves" the reason the RAF considered the 190s as "highly maneuverable craft" despite obviously not-so-impressive roll rates? I mean, I've never seen an actual 190 or something, but I think the only way a Spit pilot might report to a CO "I met a weird plane that flipped and turned on a dime"   is due to those sorts of maneuvers.

 I dunno if they lose, or do not lose E while doing the "flop", mebbe the mo' better 190 pilots can fill us in with this one.. but considering the attacker might actually make mistakes(which he is not aware of) while trying to counter the 190 move, and most usually 190s flop downwards, I think this is what may cause people to think that the 190 didn't lose any E on the move..

 I truly dunno, just opinion.. mebbe StSanta or Grun can give us a little explanation?  

[Kweassa]

OOOOps..

 that's "obviously not-so impressive turn rate" there, not roll-rate... boy, this one's a mistake to be remembered... *chuckles*

[Zigrat]

the other day vulcan did that gay bellybutton flip stuff in a tiffie

basically, all u gotta do is stall the plane to flip flop anyplane

this of course bleeds off alot of e tho

personally what i hate most is the bastards using -3g manouvers. irl thatd give u a hemmorage. id like to see stronger consequences for negative g.

[Karnak]

I have to say that the Fw190s have never seemed to "warp roll" to me.  They roll fast, but it has always been fluid unless the guy is lagging, but that shows up in other areas and other aircraft as well.

[Wotan]

Am I correct in assuming that in rl you can only pull about 1/2 as many neg gs as pos gs?


I know each individual  may have different tolerences in relation to pos gs but there's only so much blood that can fill the head before something gives.

[hblair]

Fatty, quit flying against all the tards and go against a good pilot and you might see less than that.

 

I think that some (not all) cases of stuff like this can be attributed to people getting outflown and needing some kind of excuse. I have gotten into fights with spits, and done a slow down hard rudder scissor move, kill the guy, and be accused of warping. On two occasions the guy went and watched his film and came back in the arena and apologized, it wasn't like he first thought it was. Sometimes the guy in front of you can outfly you so fast, you think it just had to be a warp!

 

[minus]

whta a crap !! it have nothing to due with 190!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how many time spit warp outroll me in 190

it depend on the player internet conection thta all !!!

so stop it ur you will be punished to fly 190 for the rest of yours days!  

[StSanta]

Flip flops happen on most planes; I've seen P-47's occasionally do it.

it happens when someone is flying on the verge of a stall and rolls a lot. Add a little rudder and it might come unintentionally.

Now, because of the "prediction" algorithm in online games (thanks Assassins for informing me about it  ) if you add a bit of vertical, you can intentionally get the flip flop thing, even without being near stall speed. I have a few films of it happening where I KNEW the pilot would flip flop and thus turned on the camera just as I engaged.

Sometimes a stall roll thingy (proper name anyone?) can seem like a flip flop, but a flip flop is change not only in roll, but also in another direction.

Flip flopping maneuvers appears to be e demanding - it's a method some use to get the other guy to overshoot. The suggested solution of slowing down works quite well - but sometimes you either cannot slow down more and don't have the energy to go up one single millimetre. The spray n pray method might yield a result as the distance then is quite short.

I agree with Zigrat about the negative g moves - often the people wjho flip flop use the negative g move - which suggests that they are linked in a way. It's really beating the "don't move your controls so rapidly" algorithm, taking advantage of some form of unidentified weakness in it.

Pump 'n dump maneuvers as I like to call them   should result in 30-60 seconds of redout, simulating the bursting of every small blood vessel in the pilots eyes. In fact, overall I think it'd be a good idea to have a longer redout time; blood vessels bursting in yer eyes don't go away in .50 of a second.

[715]

"The stall roll thingie" is called a snap roll.  Roll to the left while inputing hard left rudder.  The left wing stalls, increasing the roll force via unbalanced lift.

Actually, I'm constantly amazed that online flight sims work at all.  You're only getting about one or two updates per second of other peoples planes even when the net is perfect.  Think how far a plane can travel (or roll) in a second.  I think that despite the codes interpolation and extrapolation (prediction) routines, net delay still has a big effect on online sims making it much harder to hit a target than it would be if you had instant updates of other planes.  (Of course it doesn't make much difference in my case as I can't hit anything anyway.)

715

[Toad]

Here ya are Wotan..

"c. Tolerance of -Gz (foot to head) has not been studied intensively. About -1 Gz produces an unpleasant congestion of blood in the face and head; -2 to -3 Gz causes severe congestion of the face, throbbing headache, progressively blurring, graying, or occasionally reddening of vision. After exposure to -Gz, there may be tiny hemorrhages in the skin and eyes and the eyelids may be swollen. Minus 5 Gz for 5 seconds is probably the upper limit of tolerance; this level has seldom been achieved by volunteer subjects."

Still bored?  

[Yeager]

I dont care what you Dweebs call it.

No FM should be allowed to perform faster than the capability the net has to transmit that data to other computers.

Get off your "I love nazi regalia" horse and admit it!

If the P47 or P51..whatever, is doing the same thing then those FMs should be adjusted to compensate for the fact.

If no pilots eyes ever saw that instant flip flop crap then neither should we.

Yeager

[Karnak]

Yeager,

Maybe its your connection.  I never see what you are describing.

I'm also not a leather wearing Luftwaffe fan, I'm a tea sipping nancy RAF fan.

[maik]

hmmmmmmmmmmm, sounds like yeager got shot down by a 190 lately  .

Encountered the described FlipFlops very rarely, usually when my conn sucks. And then it's I see it on any kind of plane.