Please fix the Spitfire Mk IX

[Vermillion]

I agree with straightening out our "hybrid" Spit IX !

I do disagree with the notion about the differences in pilot attitudes between the V and the IX.  Most pilots select the V because they are trying to "out spitfire the spitfires". In other words the spitfire is a great plane with its primary attribute against other aircraft being sustained turn rates.  But when one of the top two most common enemies is the exact same aircraft you fly, then it becomes a matter of skill, and not the matter of taking advantage of aircraft differences.  Most Spit V pilots are people who use to fly the Spit IX who wanted an edge against other Spit IX's and N1K2's.  The difference between the V and the IX (which you fly in the same basic style) is no where near the difference between the 109F4 and the 109G10 (which you fly totally differently).

Karnak, there is one Pony varient that I suspect would decrease P-51D usage in the arena, but the purists would have a coniption fit !  The P-51A (or was the official designation still A-36? would have to check my books) with the x4 Hispano cannon, and the low altitude Allison engine would be very popular in my opinon.  Only a couple of hundred made, but it was actually one of the earliest of the Ponies.

[whgates3]

i never knew the Apache was armed that heavy - i figured, as a dive bomber it would have, at most 4 x 0.50...i guess i should verify my assumtions before making moronic posts

[J_A_B]

The version with the 4 20mm Hispanos was the "Mustang 1A".  It was strictly British, and around 150 of them were made.


A P-51K would also be "viable" although I see no real need for it as it was virtually identical to the P-51D except didn't quite perform as good (propeller was a hair smaller).     A P-51C with a bubble canopy and the -7 engine also might see a lot of MA usage.  Heck, it's probably see a LOT of use.   As stated before, the P-51H would make a great perk plane.    Finally, the Mustang 1--without the cannons--would itself be a fairly good low-altitude fighter that would see some MA use.

Karnak probably feels that there's no substitute for the -51D because of people like me on the BBS.   Rest assured, I am not representative of the average Pony driver  

J_A_B

[vorticon]

hmm the spits arnt very good in the first place getting rid of htere only strong point pther than turning will just make it easier for people who know how to kill to get rid of those annoying little devils. me i prefer the hurri2c or even the yak9u...205 is great as well

[Viper17]

Actualy the Mustang 1A was taken into US stocks after Pearl and converted in to the A-36 Apache. It was used in italy till they ran out of sapirs and grounded em.

[Karnak]

Vermillion,

Hmmm.

I fly the Spitfire Mk IX as a BnZ aircraft, keeping to verticle manuvers.  If I'm turning horizontally in a Spitfire Mk IX it is because I screwed up.

I fly the Spitfire Mk V pretty much as most people expect, a straight turn fighter.

To me at least, they are totally different flying and fighting styles.

Most people probably use them exactly as you described.

[Pongo]

Originally posted by whgates3
Puke - as far as i know there never were any cannon armed Mustangs, except possible a Ford Mustang towing a prop to a civil war reenactment.  other than that, i think that there aren't as many P-51 vaiants because it was perfected at the D model.  compared to that Supermarine $u><  .... MK XXIV my oscar .... get it right the 1st (or 4th) time around!!!

 ¦¬þ

One of the prototype pony Bs retained 4 hispano as well...mmmm

[Samm]

There were cannon armed mustang MkI-A's delivered to the UK, some sources say 150 some say 93, and they ordered a bunch more but I can't remember why the order was changed or cancelled .

found an image, looks like the yanks used them too .

[chunder']

Just a note:

The A36 had 6 50cals as standard (500 built).  The P51A standard armament was 4 50cals in the wings with the option of also loading the extra 2 50cals on either side of the engine (310 built).  The P51 (no designator)was the variant with 20mm cannons (150 built).  Also, the P51C didn't have a bubble canopy (unless you're referring to the field-fitted Malcolm hood); the only difference between the B and C was that the C model was manufactured at the Dallas plant.

[gofaster]

Originally posted by Urchin
It is sort of a neat conversation.  

......

I actually think one of the reasons the Spit V sees as much use as it does is because the Spit IX and N1K2 are so popular.  

That's one of the reasons I've started flying the Spit V.  The top 3 things shooting me down are Ostwinds, Spit IXs, and field guns.  Not much I can do about Ostwinds and field guns except to stop ground attacks (can't...resist....mud-moving....missions) but I can fly a plane that can out-loop the Spit IX.

The other reason I swent to the Spit V was to relive the adventure of the Eagle Squadrons.

Now I'm getting plastered by La-7s, P-51Ds, and Typhoons diving down from above.  Oh well.  At least I'm having fun.

[Squire]

Actually its not a "hybrid" Spitfire IX. It "could" represent a H.F. IX with the Merlin 70 and the "E" wing armament. They did have H.F.s with the "standard" wingtip and tail, and the performance is very similar to the AH Spitfire IX.

I would like to see a L.F. IX as well, but the AH Spitfire is a "valid" type. Nobody said it was supposed to be a merlin 61 model to begin with. Its all conjecture as to the engine type, unless HTC has said what it was supposed to be. Have they?

About 400 H.F. IXs were built, some with the C wing and some with the E wing, merlin 70 and the large scoop under the nose, like the one we have has. It wasnt as fast as a L.F. at lower alts but it handled better at high alt. Specs are close to the AH model for speed and climb.

Regards.

[Nashwan]

Pyro said a long time ago the AH Spit IX is an F IX with Merlin 61.

The Spit HF IX would be up to 20mph faster, and have about 700ft min better climb rate than the AH Spit IX.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Karnak
The Spitfire Mk IX in AH is a conglomerate of Spitfire Mk IXs.  No single Spitfire Mk IX in reality had the combined options that the AH Spitfire Mk IX has.  No Merlin 61 powered Spitfire Mk IX ever carried .50 cals or rockets, yet the AH Spitfire Mk IX is powered by a Merlin 61 and has those options.

I believe you are wrong.

The MK IX was an urgent version to counter the Fw 190. The union of a two-stage supercharged Merlin 61, 63 or 70 with the Spitfire Mk V airframe with strengthened engine mountings; LF, F or HF wings and B, C or E armament. The Mk IX E had two 20 mm Hispano cannons and two 12.7 mm (0.05 in) machine guns. 5,665 built.    

The last time I looked, I don't remember the AH Spit IX having a loadout option of rockets.

[Karnak]

Squire,

Pyro stated outright that the AH Spitfire Mk IX is powered by a Merlin 61.  If it were powered by a Merlin 70 it would be about 10mph faster on the deck, have a better climb rate and be about 8mph faster at best altitude.

Many Spitfire LF.Mk IXs and HF.Mk IXs had the normal wings.  It is a misconception that LF.Mk IXs were all clipped and HF.Mk IXs were all extended.  As a matter of fact, I've never seen a Spitfire HF.Mk IX with extended wings.

SlapShot,

No Spitfire F.Mk IX (all Spitfire F.Mk IXs were powered by the Merlin 61 or 63, the Spitfire in AH has a Merlin 61) had an "e", or "universal", wing.  All Spitfire F.Mk IXs had a "c" wing in which the armament is two 20mm Hispano Mk II cannon and four .303 calibre Browning machine guns.  No Spitfire F.Mk IX could be armed with .50 calibre Browning machine guns.  While Spitfire F.Mk IXs all carried two 20mm cannon and four .303s, Spitfire LF.Mk IXs and Spitfire HF.Mk IXs could be found with either the two 20mm cannon and four .303s or with two 20mm cannon and two .50s.

You are in error about the way the F, HF and LF designations work.  They have nothing to do with the wings.  The F, HF and LF designations are determined by the version of Merlin engine in the aircraft.  Merlin 61 or 63 means it is a Spitfire F.Mk IX.  Merlin 66 means it is a Spitfire LF.Mk IX.  Merlin 70 means it is a Spitfire HF.Mk IX.

No Spitfire F.Mk IX was ever powered by a Merlin 70.  Those came later with the introduction of the Spitfire HF.Mk IX, which entered service after the Merlin 66 powered Spitfire LF.Mk IX.

(Yes, the AH Spitfire Mk IX can carry two rockets.)


Roughly 300 Spitfire F.Mk IXs (like we have in AH, minus the .50 cals and rockets) were built.  A little more than 1,000 Merlin 70 powered Spitfire HF.Mk IXs were built and more than 3,000 Merlin 66 powered Spitfire LF.Mk IXs were built.

The Spitfire Mk IX in AH is the least representative of all Spitfire Mk IXs, and by a full order of magnitude in comparison with the Spitfire LF.Mk IX.

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Karnak


 It would also be interesting if the negative G engine cut out were added to the FM as quite a few Spitfire F.Mk IXs suffered from it. This would make AH's Spitfire Mk IX a good representation of a 1942 Spitfire F.Mk IX and would lower the number of people using the Spitfire Mk IX in the MA.

Since the Spit IX a/c were powered by  Merlin 60/70 series engines, they did not suffer from neg-G cut-out . Beginning with the Mk 24 engines, the neg-G fix was installed on the Merlins.

Rokkit, the Spit XI was a PR a/c with a big chin nose for extra oil and carried no weapons. Did you mis-type the I and X?