Author Topic: Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)  (Read 1656 times)

Offline StracCop

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« on: August 20, 2002, 06:52:05 PM »
An idea....,

Okay, I've given this quite a lot of thought and I think I've come up with a solution that solves the two most glaring problems with the bomber model that I've heard with the most frequency: accuracy and vulnerability while in calibration-bombsite (this idea also addresses the peripheral issue of people refusing to use bombers under the new model - except as low level raiders.. ;-) .

Here is how it would work:

Lets assume that 4 pilots want to launch a joint B-17 bomber mission, each pilot with a 3-plane formation.  That's 12 planes and should pack quite a punch.  The problem is they don't under the new model because its too easy for them to get widely separated from one another and because each pilot has varying levels of skill in hitting the target.  

Compounding this problem is the inherent vulnerability window that's created while you spend all that time in calibrarion/bomb site, a weakness that was quickly seized upon and exploited by the opposition.  Given these factors its no wonder that the fun factor has gone out of strategic bombing for many.

So, instead of flying as separate formations, I propose that an option be coded into the program that allows the pilots of these formations to 'group' their 3-plane formations to a more accomplished flight leader and create a 'Group Combat Formation' (say a maximum of four pilots  - [12 planes] for each group).  

Once grouped (attached), the 'Group Leader' would have navigation and bombing control over the entire bomber group while the pilots of the other 3-plane bomber formations (and their gunners if so equipped) can concentrate on manning the defensive armament. This, I believe, would more faithfully recreate the experience of actual bomber missions in World War II and would allow those who have labored to become proficient under the new bombing model to realize some recognition of their efforts by becoming 'Group Leaders.'

My sense is that this might best be done through a 'dot' command.

For example, the command: '.group HiTech' Would give HiTech control of my 3-plane formation.  So, when he turns, my 3-plane formation would also turn using the same 'tether' that the 3-plane formations now have. I would be freed from having to fly the plane and could instead concentrate on manning the planes' defensive guns.

Furthermore, when HiTech opens bomb bay doors, mine would open and when he dropped ordnance, I would drop - just like in World War II.

To exit the group a command like: '.detach' would be easy enough to remember.  A 'group' radio channel could also be provided if desired.

In summary, the group leader, a pilot with skill in hitting the target in a heavy bomber, would be commanding and piloting a 12-plane formation and, because the other pilots could then concentrate on defense instead of hitting the target, the bombers would not be the easy pickens' they have been while on final bomb runs.  More bomber missions would be flown because of the increased effectiveness of such missions and the greater number of missions would present dedicated BUF hunters more numerous and formidible targets to attack.

These are just some ideas I've had germinating around in my head for a while now. I wonder what the rest of you think of them?  I'd like to see a greater use of bomber formations again someday and I think this solution would go a long way towards making that possible.  

Flying bomber formations is now, at least for a majority of us, a futile gesture that does little more than waste time and give BUF hunters an easy target...and I don't care to be a target drone.

So there it is. I've attached a pic of what a prototype formation could look like once joined for your review.  Constructive commentary is invited and encouraged!

- Dave



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« Last Edit: August 20, 2002, 09:21:38 PM by StracCop »

Offline Kweassa

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2002, 07:09:12 PM »
Very good idea!

 Two thumbs up!

 :D

Offline VGhost

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2002, 07:12:09 PM »
You go StracCop! Excellent post:D

Offline Kuben

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2002, 07:43:40 PM »
First off I love the basic concept but you are proposing that there is really only one player piloting the other 8 or 11 buffs and when he turns everybody turns, when he opens doors everybody does so, etc.
Would buff drivers enjoy doing nothing but gunning if the lead bomber that you attach to does everything for you?

I am terrible at bombing even before the revision so I would love it.  :D

Hmmm....I don't know what the answer is but you're really on to something here.

Kuben

Offline Toad

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2002, 07:59:39 PM »
First of all, an outstanding presentation of your idea. Well done. In fact, THIS is how it should be done. No anger, no accusation, no veiled innuendo, no tears about previous abuse of buffs... just a rational presentation of your thoughts.

Second, it seems like it certainly doesn't force anyone to do anything they don't want to do... so excellent there as well.

Third, it certainly would make the bombers more effective and more historical at the same time, so... no problem there. (Except now we'll have to get more fighters to attack at once. But with more targets, there's more food for everyone! ;) )

So, overall, nicely done!
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Offline hazed-

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2002, 08:18:44 PM »
agree 100% . great idea.

whats really suprising is strac never even mentioned his 'handcuff the players to their guns' idea :)

straccop

Offline Grimm

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2002, 08:29:44 PM »
This Sounds like an excellent Idea.  

Hitech, Please give this some thought

Offline Karnak

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2002, 08:53:46 PM »
Bravo StracCop.  Great idea.
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Offline StracCop

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2002, 09:12:42 PM »
Quote
Would buff drivers enjoy doing nothing but gunning if the lead bomber that you attach to does everything for you?


Kuben,

That is correct.  Except he doesn't do everything for you.  He depends on your gunnery skill to keep him alive since he will be occupied with other duties.

Nonetheless, I hasten to point out that attaching yourself to a Group Leader would be entirely optional.  If you preferred to continue to navigate and bomb on your own you could still do so.  After all, doing so will allow you to hone your own bombing skills, a necessary prerequisite to become an effective Group Leader.  In summary, attaching yourself to a 'Group Leader' would be at your discretion and you could 'detach' at any time and at your pleasure.  Although I didn't mention this previously, the intended Group Leader would also have the  option to accept the responsibility and could decline attach requests by interested parties at their discretion.

One thing comes to mind that I haven't yet addressed and that is what would happen to the Bomber Group if the 'Group Leader' formation were destroyed or the pilot killed.  As we all know Luftwaffe pilots went to great lengths to kill the bomb group leaders during the war because of their tactical importance to the mission's success.

I think that to preserve the momentary chaos that such a loss would have it would probably be best for all plane formations within the group to automatically revert to individual control upon the death of the Group Leader.  The surviving members could then elect to nominate a new leader to join with if desired.  Doing this while under fire would be a challenge not unlike that experienced by 8th Air Force pilots during the war and would add yet another layer of realism to the experience.

Thanks for the responses and feedback guys.  I'm glad that you've decided to give the idea some thought and have found some merit in it.  I hope that this idea and your suggestions will be considered by HiTech for introduction in a future release.

Thanks again and keep the comments coming!

- Dave
"StracCop"
113th "Lucky Strikes" Attack Squadron

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« Last Edit: August 20, 2002, 09:25:54 PM by StracCop »

Offline SKurj

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2002, 09:13:42 PM »
this sounds like a gr8 idear


SKurj

Offline Scott E

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2002, 09:14:37 PM »
I would like it very much if hitech would code a way for players to join a buff as a bombardier instead of a gunner.


thus, when the pilot starts the bomb run he can call for a bombardier to join their buff(s).  the pilot then hits a key to turn on bombing autopilot (shift b ?) to give control of the buff to the bombardier just like the real buffs did.

while in bombing autopilot all aircraft control while in cockpit or gunner positions is disabled until the pilot disengages it again with (shift b ?) this will prevent the player from inadvertantly ruining the bomb run while gunning or accidentally moving the controls.


as for scoring bomb hits should be credited to both players in the bomber category.

somehow it just makes more sense to have a player join to drop the bombs while the pilot concentrates on defense gunning during the bomb run.

Offline RafBader

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2002, 09:16:05 PM »
Great post!
 After reading this one I may even pay more attention to the BB than I have lately.
I have 17 squadmates and not one of us wants to buff again, but if something like this were implemented I believe the buff hunters and the buff flyers would be back in the game. :)


 RafBader:Co. RRR

Offline SKurj

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2002, 09:24:19 PM »
Just curious...

Has anyone actually noticed the spread of craters with a formation matching the actual spread of the drones themselves?



SKurj

Offline StracCop

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2002, 09:28:50 PM »
Quote
Has anyone actually noticed the spread of craters with a formation matching the actual spread of the drones themselves?

I've noticed SKurj,

They look too tight to me.  More like a single bomber made them with 3 times as many bombs.

This is a critical point though.
In order for this idea to address the accuracy issue of the current bomber model the bomb dispersal pattern must correspond with the aircraft formation pattern (understanding that the effects of wind, bomb wobble, etc. may alter the impact pattern).

Thanks for bringing that up SKurj!

- Dave

« Last Edit: August 20, 2002, 09:54:52 PM by StracCop »

Offline StracCop

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Improving the Bomber Model (suggestion)
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2002, 09:57:10 PM »
I'd like to digress a little with a link to an additional discussion.  While far beyond the focus of this thread I thought it wise to incorporate a mention of it here to insure its review since it would be somewhat related if adopted.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62232

I think that the idea for a 'Bomber Group' would dovetail with the idea expressed on this thread quite well.  Additional thoughts or comments?

Thanks again for the well-reasoned and thoughtful dialogue..!

- Dave
"StracCop"
113th 'Lucky Strikes' Attack Squadron
« Last Edit: August 20, 2002, 10:05:04 PM by StracCop »