Author Topic: CV Damage modeling  (Read 350 times)

Offline MoonJuice

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CV Damage modeling
« on: July 15, 2002, 12:58:41 PM »
HiTech,

Any chance of getting damage modeling for the CV task groups?

All other vechiles have this in place - ships are the last to get this.

Would like to see guns made inoperable by strafing/bomb damage.

May be even be unable to fly from CV after 6k bombs, until deck is repaired (10-15 minutes).

Disable LVT and PT launch after certain damage.

Perhaps a slow down in the task force speed if CV or cruiser engines are hit.

Would like to see boats on fire, smoke, mayhem, destruction, the usual stuff that makes AH great.

Also another idea... if the task force is in a sector with a friendly base, repair time is 25% faster.

If the Task force is in a friendly port sector repair time is 50% faster, and any missing ships are replaced in the sector after 30 minutes.

Offline superpug1

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2002, 02:22:07 PM »
it ounds good to me.:D

Offline Sabre

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2002, 03:06:23 PM »
Been campaigning for this for some time.  I'd further like to see fleet support ships like tankers, ammo ships, and troop transports added.  Kill the tanker and you're down to 25% fuel for planes/vehicles; kill the ammo ship and now a2g ord; etc.  Also want direct engine and helm control of the fleet, as well as gun director positions for controlling entire gun batteries.  Fire, smoke, listing ships, decrease in speed...bring 'em on!
Sabre
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Offline HFMudd

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2002, 03:16:59 PM »
I don't want much, just a multi-player "Great Naval Battles of the North Atlantic" would do... :)

Seriously though, the origonal GNBNA had a wonderful damage model.  Later versions became too feature rich for my tastes, but that first one was great.

Offline Shiva

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2002, 03:51:18 PM »
I don't know whether it would be practical to get the rights to do it, but it should be fairly simple to implement taking the damage model from a naval miniatures game like Larry Bond's 'Command at Sea' or the old SPI boardgame 'CV' and fold it into the FE; the question is whether the additional detail would be apparent enough in play to be worth the overhead.

Offline Chairboy

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2002, 04:42:26 PM »
I think the ideas presented above for CV repair/damage schemas is great, but one complication would need to be overcome, namely, what would stop enemy planes from extrapolation courses of supply ships and using them to get CVs?

One possible solution might be to have supply ships 'patrolling' along routes and breaking off their routes when they come within a sector of a CV and moving into formation w/ the CV for 10 minutes or so to represent the resupply.  Of course, if HTC writes the submarine implementation Hitech described (where you would control it like a CV, then jump into it for exciting moments), it could be used to control resupply convoys as well.

I like working support roles (M3/goon work, etc) to make up for being a rotten combat flyer, so this would be gravy for me.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline whgates3

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2002, 10:28:54 PM »
i would like to see steam rising from the flight deck after a bomb hits the CV.

Offline whgates3

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2002, 10:29:30 PM »
changed my mind - i dont want that - AH taxes my vid card as it is

Offline MoonJuice

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2002, 08:09:45 AM »


HiTech,

How hard would it be to add damage modeling to ships?

Can this be added in the next version?

I'm thinking start simple... add the ability to knock out the guns, acks, show fires, smoke, etc.

Then later add re-supply and repair, more damage affects like disabling flight ops and slowing the fleet's speed.

Offline DarkHawk

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2002, 05:28:55 PM »
Naval warfare can be fun. See following
Task Force setup
1) 2 or more cruiser
2) 2 Carrier as if a large task force
3) a battleship
4) make all 20mm or larger guns able to be manned and allow gun switching similiar to the PT boat.
5) since carriers only had so much space, one could limit the number of planes available from each carrier in the task force.
6) How about some Destroyers for anti-sub work

Idea is this each side would have at least two or more task groups
1) One Task Group would be what is currently available with more available manned guns
2) Other Task Group would be twice what is now available and include a battleship.

Sugestion to change damaged mode as follows
1) Carrier 4 torpedos, or 16k of bombs.
2) Battleship 3 torpedos or 12k of bombs.
3) Cruiser 2 Torp or 8k of bombs.
4) Destroyer 1 torp or 2k of bombs.
5) Allow repair of ship damage over a period of time. Example for each 4k of bombs it would take a time of 10 or 15 minutes to repair.

Leave AI AAA as is.

Any other suggestion I would like to hear them.

DarkHawk
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Offline john9001

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2002, 05:40:16 PM »
all your ideas are good ones, most ideas will be put into the game, just not this month.

Offline Seagoon

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2002, 07:16:09 PM »
Sabre has been doing legion work campaigning for improvements to the AH Navy for some time now, and I hope HT has been reading and considering. He had a terrific post a little while back with ideas on improving the damage model that I hope gets implemented.

The smoke, list, and guns knocked out ideas are a must and I think we can all agree that the Naval dimension of the game has the most room for improvement. At this point I'd willingly agree to a hold on the planeset dimension (as much as I want seaplanes) in order to upgrade/revamp/add to the ships.

BTW - GNBA ROCKED!!! I played that game for hours, if only we could implement their naval gunnery system as well!

- Seagoon
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Offline SuperD

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2002, 08:41:40 PM »
Only 4 torpedo hits !?!?!?!?!

USS Lexington CV-2 took 11 torpedo hits, 4 on one side and 7 on the other and was still doing over 20 knots.

Offline Sabre

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CV Damage modeling
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2002, 09:16:51 AM »
You are very kind, Seagoon.  I am but one voice amoung many that have been hoping for a richer naval game in AH.  To give you an idea of the fun you can have with naval combat in AH, I ran a Snapshot about a year ago (when I was part of the Weekly Events CM team) called "Form Battleline."  This was loosely based on the battlecruiser actions at Jutland, with CA's representing the Battlecruisers, DE's representing the light cruisers, and PT boats representing the destroyers (which were really just large torpedo boats in those days).  The set up took me over an hour, and you'll see why.

I took Weazel's Phillipine map, which has 8+ cruiser fleets (3 CA's and 4 DE's), and used the .detonate command to pare each of them down to one CA and 2 DE's apeice.  Than I made four of them Knight and the other four Rook, and used the .jump command to place these mini-TG's into two line-astern formations, with 30 miles separating these two new "battlecrusier" squadrons.  The result was two opposing four-cruiser battlecruiser squadrons, each with 8 DE's escorting them.  The final positions of each squadron was done just before the scenario started, with neither side knowing where the other was.  The kicker was that each "battlecruiser" was commanded by a different person (being it's own TG), so killing a flagship didn't cause you to loose your entire fleet, just a single cruiser and two DE's.  Battlecruiser captains had to maneuver their elemets together if they wanted to stay in formation.

I also gave each side the opportunity to lauch 4 unarmed scout planes (TBM's) from a nearby friendly CV, then jumped the CV a hundred miles away and disabled A/C.  These planes were used to find the enemy BC squadron, and to act as gunnery spotters.  Finally, to represent the greyhounds (the numerous independent destroyers that took part), I allowed each side a one-time launch of as many PT boats as they had people to man.  Any a/c or PT pilots killed could jump to a gun position on any other unit.

The result was a classic ship-of-the-line battle that lasted over an hour.  In the end, one side lost one BC, while the other side was completely wiped out.  What a blast to watch, too.  Cruisers nosing through a forest of tall shell splashes; the water alive with torpedoes; tall pillars of smoke marking the final resting place of a once-proud ship-of-the-line.  I watched in facination as a lone PT boat courageously charged headlong at the onrushing enemy behemouths, be obliterated seconds after launching its torps, only to watch the targeted cruiser deftly turn and comb right between the torpedo wakes.  My God, it was beautiful!  If only we'd had fire and smoke and such to dress it up right!  Oh, to see the scars of battle on those great vessels, and to watch them battle bravely on as the burn and list and eventually succomb to their wounds.  I love the smell of cordite in the morning!

How about it, HTC?  Can't we take Aces High to the next level?  WWIIOL is still without serious naval combat.  You could scoop them, if you put your mind to it.
Sabre
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