Author Topic: Anyone think this jail sentence reasonable? (Read 3635 times)

midnight Target · « **Reply #60 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:25:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kanth
Third strike and he gets shipped off to France.

Now THATS cruel and unusual!!!!:D

Kieran · « **Reply #61 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:27:29 PM »

Let's see what experience I have....

17 years of teaching...

26 years of coaching...

Have I run into troubled teens? How could I not have? Have some of them turned around? You bet! But... there comes a time when it is obvious it just isn't going to happen. And yes, I'll take my experience of it over any armchair quarterbacking from anyone that hasn't. If you had told me you worked in welfare, or had been a liaison of the courts, I might value that viewpoint more- but then, I work with these people, and I know what their opinions are of these types of cases. Statistically the end is inevitable, it is only a matter of how many victims it will take to get there.

I have a former student on trial for murder- I've mentioned him before. He was breaking into the home of an elderly lady, and she caught him and his partner. My wonderful former student beat her to death with a hammer. He has a history of mental disorder, has prior arrests for minor crimes, and has spent some jail time. So tell me, does this make your case or my case?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #62 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:35:29 PM »

has spent some jail time.

Did he serve that jail time before he beat that lady?

If he did, it makes my case completely.

If you'll notice, I didn't say let him walk, or anything like that.

He needs to be put into a mental home where any progress or not can be monitored for a couple of years.

But of course, I will digress to your years of coaching and teaching.

Afterall, a lot of those people did so much for m... err wait... only a few of them really gave a toejam.

The difference between this kid, and the one you know... he hasn't killed anyone yet, and there's still a chance for rehabilitation.

There is NO chance for rehabilitation in jail. They become hardened criminals no matter what, even if they weren't going to before.

Jail is full of sex offenders, rapists, and murderers... you may as well just sentence that kid to death... it'll be better for him than jail.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #63 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:46:58 PM »

10Bears-

You have a particular knack for ignoring parts of a story. This "boy" didn't just get sentenced for beer, it was all that other criminal record, habitual offender business that did it.

SW-

And I defer to your expertise in dealing with kids because you are a computer tech.

How many kids have you dealt with that have come from mental institutes? I bet I can count twenty or so in my time. It doesn't work the way you think it does, I can tell you that. Fact is, I think you are thinking with your heart and not your brain.

Am I happy about kids getting sent to prison? No, despite 10B's somewhat ludicrous comments about Hortlund and me. I do however face the reality that people, even kids, have to be responsible for themselves and their actions.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #64 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:53:44 PM »

In my earlier years I spent a majority of them following someone from mental institute, to mental institute.

But hey... just because I've seen kids get fixed up with my own eyes, I guess it was just a fluke accident.

My heart... pffftttt... you think this judge didn't hand down that sentence with his heart?

There is no fixing someone up by sending someone off to jail.

It'd be far more humane to just sentence him to death.
-SW

Elfenwolf · « **Reply #65 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:53:48 PM »

10Bears, he's not getting ten years for stealing a six pack of beer- he's getting 10 years because he's committed four violent felonies already. Two of those felonies occurred while he was incarcerated in the juvenile system (for what wasn't made clear) so maybe the juvenile justice system can't deal with this guy.

Please, don't make it sound like I'm in favor of throwing 17 year olds in prison because I'm not- unless it's as a last resort because the juvenile justice system can't handle him. What do you propose Florida do with kid? I agree this might not be the best way to deal with this kid, but I wonder if maybe it's the only way to deal with him?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #66 on:** August 29, 2002, 12:57:03 PM »

BTW-- is there anyway to mandate someone join the armed services?

I think sending this kid into the marines would fix his bellybutton right up in no time flat.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #67 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:09:01 PM »

Don't forget this fellow's condition was diagnosed, and he had medication prescribed- which mom claims he didn't take. Tell me, what program is going to solve that problem?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #68 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:12:19 PM »

Replacing the mom.

The kid might be diddlyed up... but he's by no means a lost cause... not yet.

He will be once he's sent to jail.

But his mom has just as much in her kid's diddly ups as the kid does.

If one goes to jail, both should. May teach some people how to properly raise their kids, or get their tubes tied/vesectomy.

Anyway, 10 years down the road... when he gets out of jail... don't be surprised when you see his name in the papers with a body count next to it.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #69 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:13:30 PM »

At least those bodies lived 10 more years.

Elfenwolf · « **Reply #70 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:18:11 PM »

Wolfe, it probably would. But you know what? I really don't care what happens to this kid nearly as much as I'm concerned for his victims, both past and future. As far as "mental institutions" go, I didn't read where the kid entered a plea of insanity. All his Mom said was that he was medicated, but hey, we medicate our children in America because it's easier to deal with them that way so so what?

No, I don't think it's fair to sentance him to death- not yet anyway. Let's wait until he's in and out of prison several times for even more violent felonies and he kills a few people before we do that. Due process of law bud.

BTW- I busted my daughter (newly turned 17) lying about something trivial to me. In my house that's a mortal crime that can cost you driving or phone privelages. I informed her that by 17 your character should be well formed and that she didn't have the excuse of youth to use as an arguement any more- a liar is a liar. Her answer? "But Dad- I've only been 17 for a couple of weeks. Maybe I'm a late bloomer." I laughed as I took away her cell phone and car keys for a week or so.

10Bears · « **Reply #71 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:20:34 PM »

There you go Wulfe, the perfect solution.

I’ve been thinking about this for awhile now. You have half a million prisoners in there on drug charges. Most of these gangbangers are young, work out, and are being housed like vegetables, not learning anything about how to live on the outside. You can’t keep them there forever, they have to be released sometime.

The Dirty Dozen Clause.

Instead of wasting these guys lives here’s the deal, they go into the service for 5 years in a special battalion. This battalion gets the tough jobs.. patrolling the perimeter of Bagram airport, fighting in downtown Baghdad stuff like that. What do they get in return?.. Well for one their freedom, voting rights re-installed, former records purged, GI loans, a set of decent clothes to find a job... In short, their life back. What do we get in return?.. Our boys don’t have to die on the streets of Baghdad, prison space freed up for child rapists, murderers and so forth.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #72 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:33:24 PM »

"Atleast"?

You don't know Kieren... you don't know at all. You just assume. You assume he's going to have victims. You assume there's no other way but to turn him into a hardened criminal.

Those victims could "atleast" live a whole life time.

You put him in jail, his victims will ONLY live 10 more years.

It's that simple.

Elf- if you have a history of mental problems, you can be placed in a mental institution. Pleading insanity... yeah right... if your daughter got hit by a car, not mangled, just knocked to her ass.. maybe a broken leg, you can kill the driver and in court plead temporary insanity... might even get off.

Pleading it and being it are two different things.

I dunno what the best solution, but the hitleresque style of throwing people in jail who diddlyed up(even in the mildest of ways) because they were raised that way... well, if you believe in God you better start asking for his forgiveness now.
-SW

Kieran · « **Reply #73 on:** August 29, 2002, 01:57:46 PM »

Quote

You don't know Kieren... you don't know at all. You just assume. You assume he's going to have victims. You assume there's no other way but to turn him into a hardened criminal.

I assume them before, you assume them after. What's difference? I say once the tendency to commit crime is identified, you remove the ability of the person to commit the crime. Sorry that is offensive.

Nifty · « **Reply #74 on:** August 29, 2002, 02:26:25 PM »

Why don't we go ahead and put a bullet in the kid's head or give him the chair? You all have already conceded that he's going to kill someone eventually. Let's save that innocent life and end the eventually guilty one before that crime even takes place!

Seriously, Wulfie is the only one against the sentence to offer an alternative. I'd be interested in hearing the others opinions on how MY tax dollars are being spent on this. And the "put 'em in the army" idea doesn't count. It's not going to happen. So what punishment should the kid have gotten that the State of Florida can actually administer?