Author Topic: 190 Radiator hit revisited? (Read 748 times)

Sundog · « **Reply #15 on:** August 29, 2002, 07:29:26 PM »

John, they aren't complaining about radiator hits. They are complaining about radiator hits in the Dora from enemy aircraft on their 6 O'Clock and generally from a long distance out. Having a radiator shot out in a Mustang by someone on your 6 makes sense, since the radiator is in the rear of the aircraft. However, on the Dora, the radiator is on the nose between the engine and the prop. I seriously doubt you would be able to shoot the radiator out on the Dora from a 6 shot, unless your shells went through the pilots armor, the firewall and the engine first. Even taking trajectory into account for a long distance shot, I still don't think you could get enough of an arc to hit it, as it is smaller than the cowling it is in and for it to have the right arc to hit the radiator it would have to clear the top of the engine then dive down to the radiator. I would say it's possible from a high or low 6 shot where the AOT was 45 degrees or greater, but the long range six shots into the radiator just aren't that plausable.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily say HTC is ignoring that. They have a ton of stuff to do on their lists and it get's prioritized. All this is a huge deal to you guys, it isn't necessarily at the top of their list. that isn't to say it isn't important, that's just the way it goes sometimes.

As for the Fw-190 not holding E as well as many other planes, that actually makes sense when you consider it's wingloading and how much drag it would develop during maneuvering under load when compared to aircraft with more efficient wings. You have to consider that diving in then pulling G's to pull back up is going to bleed more E than an aircraft which has a more efficient wing. However, I'm not saying it's completely accurate as I myself haven't tried to compare it to actual data. Comparing two different types of plane in that regard though, is truly comparing apples to oranges. You really need the info for the Fw-190 in that regard.

Toad · « **Reply #16 on:** August 29, 2002, 07:59:46 PM »

Can't speak to the 190 radiator question; I don't fly them.

As to overall durability, in my opinion.. and it's just an opinion.. they seem to be "average" overall. There's some harder planes to kill (the Russian ones seem to soak up .50's) and there's some easier planes to kill (zekes for example) but overall the 190's seem to be about as tough as most of the rest of the plane set. Just impression with no film or anything else to back it up.

I can speak to the P-51 coolant/radiator question. I do fly those. Anyone who thinks the P-51 doesn't lose the radiator quite easily just hasn't flown them very extensively.

Lastly this:

Quote

Hazed: gave up trying to say this in another thread because the first thing someone said was stop whining

I read that thread from the beginning. You got TWO answers before you deleted your post.

ok, I know I'm gonna get blasted here but

Here's what they said word for word:

From Viper17

Quote

Hazed:

so whats going on? bug or intentional model?

Quote

Viper17:
I wouldent touch that one with a 50 foot pole.

[/b]

and from ra:

Quote

ra:

fly 190's a bit, and I haven't noticed this.

[/b]

Those are the only responses you received before you edited your comments out.

My question is... which one was "the first thing someone said was stop whining"?

I'm confused.

Sachs · « **Reply #17 on:** August 29, 2002, 10:02:03 PM »

Ok lets see tonights sortie break down.

3 sorties in seafire 1 rad hit not bad
1 sortie in A6m no hits registered so no rad damage
7 Sorties in a Dora 2 deaths do to stupidity. 2 rad hits from 6 position again was able to ditch thank god i dont travel that far sometimes and 3 safely landed only lost an aerilon.
1 sortie in G-10 no damage.

This needs to be addressed, I know I am nto imagining this as I fly the dora quite a lot.

Apar · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2002, 02:50:14 AM »

Quote

John9001:
me and hitler both wonder how you lost the war so badly with the best of everything

You sound like a real expert on WWII history,

I don't know who you are, never met you in AH.

Have you ever flown LW planes in AH?

I suggest you do it for a tour and compare it to your precious Allied ride. Than read a bit on LW plane specs and compare them to the specs of your precious Allied ride.

You might be confusing 'whines' about aircraft specs with 'whines' about 'why can't my 190 outturn a spitfire' . Could be me, but I heard nobody ever complain about that. LW drivers know what the limits in performance are of their LW rides and we adapt flying accordingly. What does disturb us is that the few things these planes were good at can not always be found in AH.

Ever occurred to you that if the LW planes are not modelled correctly that less and less plp will fly em? Must be real fun to fly Allied vs Allied only in the future

straffo · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2002, 03:33:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hazed-
using a 190a8 with 780 20mm i attacked 4 formations of b17s. by the time I had shot down 3 single b17s (and it was good solid hits each pass with little waste i had 150 rds left)

trying the same with hurricane c a few hours later i managed to kill a formation in TWO PASSES! firing 60 odd rounds per pass (had 40 rds in each gun left) they popped like balloons!

I don't think you can compare ...
The hispano is obviously more performant I agree
But were you making you pass with the same closure rate with the hurry ? I don't think so

About radiator hit :
I've switched to a Typhoon/yak dweeb combo to the 190 (all mark) but when I'm hit in a 190 I'm I've PLENTY of time before the engine stop ...

Time I've NOT in a Typhoon/Yak

(if your rad is killed you have to land ASAP !)

Why ?

if you really want to protest about radiator switch 1 full TOD to the Typhoon/yak combo ... the next TOD you will be quite happy of your 190...

Naudet · « **Reply #20 on:** August 30, 2002, 04:03:40 AM »

Apar, i won't argue with John, i have studied history since i can remember and if i learned one thing than that:

History teached in the USA is US-History and has more or less not much to do with the history teached in the rest of the world.
Most people in AH from the USA have quit often a better non-US view on history, especially of WW2.
But there will always be a couple of US-citizen here that will never doubt the public legend of "how-brave-US-soldiers-with-ultra-modern-high-quality-equitment-won-world-war-two" (sorry but i cant resist to be a little sarcastic in this matter, have gone through it to often).

They forget that WW1+2 were not won by high quality material or high quality soldiers, but rather by economical and human resources.

Sure design quality has some impact but it will never be as great as the impact of the ability to reinforce and to supply your fighting force.
As the best example you can take the Sherman tank, it is at best a medicore design, at best 5 Sherman were worth a german Tiger or Panther, but hell the US-Economy could build 10+ Shermans for every Tiger or Panther germanies industrie could bring to the front.

Wilbus · « **Reply #21 on:** August 30, 2002, 04:18:22 AM »

Agree with what Naudet and Apar says, and of course with Hazed and Kweassa and other fellow LW friends who have shown evidence about many things but never got anything fixed.

My little Ta152 comes to mind

Apar · « **Reply #22 on:** August 30, 2002, 05:03:58 AM »

Quote

They forget that WW1+2 were not won by high quality material or high quality soldiers, but rather by economical and human resources.

Exactly Naudet,

Kweassa · « **Reply #23 on:** August 30, 2002, 07:47:16 PM »

I dunno what's going on, really.

If the P-38 was fixed because HTC has discovered a big enough reason to fix it and decides not to disclose it, my question is, why would anyone not want to disclose just exactly how things were fixed?

All this hush-hush mentality going around HTC is understandable, but sometimes, its just too much.

....

Some things and issues like the 190 roll rates.. questions on the ammo load of Bf109G-2(I brought this issue up personally)... SpitI/109E-4 roll rate comparison... the 190A-5 Sea Level speed discussion.. Ta152H-1 max speed discussions..

Really, I've seen my share of people whining around, and I'm usually the one who does not hesitate to bash unreasonable or mis-informed whining. But all of the examples above had good reasons, data, charts, extensive discussions and etc etc. Many of them were brought up some long versions ago.

Guess how the people would feel when seemingly one bunch of guys "whine" and receives a "quick fix" for the plane of their choice, but when they themselves request for a correction by throwing in vast amounts of data and discussions to prove them right, no answer for years.

There could be good reasons to why HTC decides not to fix some things, and sometimes, it sure'd be nice to know WHY. They can at least tell us what seems inappropriate, or what data is needed to prove it right.. or why they don't feel up to fixing it. At least people have something to talk and think about.

Sometimes, watching the A/V forum is like watching people talking to a brick wall..

Wilbus · « **Reply #24 on:** August 30, 2002, 07:53:24 PM »

Totally agree Kweassa!

Blue Mako · « **Reply #25 on:** August 30, 2002, 09:35:27 PM »

If you think that the P38 was fixed after a short time then you obviously didn't see Tak's whine campaign that lasted for months. Oh and the P38 weakness was attributed to a bug in the model, not a conspiracy. Maybe if your arguments weren't always worded as "nobody loves me everybody hates me" whines the anti-LW conspiracy wouldn't be so strong...

Maybe post in the bugs forum that dead 6 shots giving rad damage is a bug, using pics and film, rather than just claiming that your ride is "porked"... This is not an emotional issue, it's not personal, try to help HTC fix it.

Samm · « **Reply #26 on:** August 30, 2002, 11:03:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Blue Mako
If you think that the P38 was fixed after a short time then you obviously didn't see Tak's whine campaign that lasted for months. Oh and the P38 weakness was attributed to a bug in the model, not a conspiracy. Maybe if your arguments weren't always worded as "nobody loves me everybody hates me" whines the anti-LW conspiracy wouldn't be so strong...

Maybe post in the bugs forum that dead 6 shots giving rad damage is a bug, using pics and film, rather than just claiming that your ride is "porked"... This is not an emotional issue, it's not personal, try to help HTC fix it.

Word.

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 31, 2002, 06:16:54 AM »

The p 38 is a flying tank and we cannot kill it with 2 rounds 30mm

Whheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeee!!!

FW's are pretty though many escape after being hitted

WheeeeeeeeeWheeeeeeeeeee!!!

Apar · « **Reply #28 on:** August 31, 2002, 06:33:46 AM »

Quote

Maybe if your arguments weren't always worded as "nobody loves me everybody hates me" whines the anti-LW conspiracy wouldn't be so strong...

The LW ' whine' posts didn't start out like that Mako.

Yep, after 2 years of complaining plp tend to get frustrated, and then posts end up like this,

P.S. I totally agree with Kweassa.

Vladd · « **Reply #29 on:** August 31, 2002, 07:36:34 AM »

The Typhoon loses it's rad from single all aspect hits very frequently. As does the P51. Actually, so did quite a few Hurris during the BoB scenario last week

One-ping rad hits are far from being unique to the D9.

Vladd