Buying new PC. Advice needed =)

[Tac]

btw, new quote on AMD system with *gasp* 768 ram no vid card and some other stuff I "upgraded" from before
Pre-configured AMD Thunderbird/Duron Computer System with DDR Memory
 ATX Mid Tower Case with 250 Watt Power Supply
 Iwill KA266 Motherboard - 266/200 MHz FSB - DDR Memory
 1 4X AGP - 5 PCI Slots - Ultra33/66/100
 Heavy Duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly
 1.44 MB Floppy Drive
 104 Keyboard, Mouse
 Millennium Gold Service Plan on any system we assemble!
Processor Thunderbird 1.3 GHz CPU (266 MHz FSB)
Upgrade Case Full Tower ATX case
Upgrade Power Supply to AMD approved 300 Watt ATX PS
Upgrade Motherboard Iwill KA266-R - IDE RAID - Ultra/100 - 266/200 MHz FSB
Memory 768MB PC2100 DDR Memory (Three 128 MB)
Hard Drive 7200 RPM 60 GB Ultra/100
DVD Drive 16X Pioneer IDE DVD
Rewritable PlexWriter 16/10/40 CDR-W EIDE (APAPI)
Upgrade Sound Sound Blaster Live! 5.1(OEM)
Network Cards 3COM 3C905CX-TXM 10/100
Speakers Altec Lansing ACS-45.2 Subwoofer System
Monitor KDS VS-195E - 19 IN .26mm 1600 X 1280
Operating System Windows Millennium installed and on CD
Service Plans One year on site warranty
AntiVirus Software Norton AntiVirus 2001 CD


Which is better.. the ASUS MBD  or this one i've never heard of before?  

 Iwill KA266 Motherboard - 266/200 MHz FSB - DDR Memory
 1 4X AGP - 5 PCI Slots - Ultra33/66/100
 Heavy Duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly

[Vulcan]

Asus are damn good boards (I worked for a distributor selling them for 5 years).

Never heard of IWill... I'd be worried. And DON'T touch Intel boards, they are generally crap made by FIC in Taiwan for Intel.

Make sure you get a good brand of memory, it will make the world of difference.

250watt psu sounds light, go for a 300 watt at least (250watt will only do if its a really REALLY good quality one - which is rare).

I would also recommend checking out the benchmarks kicking around. Some of the benchmarks reveal that buying things like DDR SDRAM sound really good but the improvements can be marginal at times (like 5% improvement for 50% more cost).

I'd also consider going Geforce-2/3/whatever for the videocard, Nvidia are getting real matey with Microsoft and future versions of DirectX will support Nvidia chipsets well.

[Tac]

Argh, now I gotta worry about RAM brand too?  

I'll let bloom suggest some. He's got my money in his magic wand heeehee..

[the_hegemon]

Here is Iwill's home page, they have a column on the right that is just links to reviews of that MB.  I've got a friend who has one right now with an Athlon 1.33 Ghz, it's fast as hell and he hasn't had any problems at all with it.

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darkstar
=Twin Engine Devils=

We’ve go no place in this outfit for good losers.  We want tough hombres who will go in there and win!
                  --Admiral Jonas Ingram

[bloom25]

It's kind of funny reading this thread.  I'm about 3 posts behind when it comes to responding.

I looked at that list, and overall it looks pretty good.  I do have a few concerns though.

I find it doubtful that anybody would suggest putting together an AMD Athlon system (especially a 1.33) without using a certified 300W power supply.  This would be my first change.

The next thing that catches my eye would be the Iwill motherboard.  That board uses the ALI Magik 1 chipset.  The Ali chipset is junk, plain and simple.  There are better solutions out there.  I wouldn't settle for a DDR based system that didn't have the AMD 760 chipset.  The Asus a7m266 would be my first choice for a DDR system.  Personally I think you are making the right choice in going for DDR Ram.  It is still kind of new, but it does offer a modest performance boost at not too large a price premium.  It should also be fairly easy to upgrade in the future.

I would also like to know exactly WHICH "heavy duty heat sink and fan assembly" they plan on using?  They don't say.

It appears there is no soundcard listed.  (Is that soundblaster live! 5.1 one you picked, or an option.)  I don't like, and you don't want, integrated sound.

I also don't see a modem.  Do you have one you plan on reusing?  If not, I personally don't have too much to say in which modems are best.  Ask Skuzzy about modems if you want one.  (Don't get a Motorola though.)

I'll check out that site and let you know what I find in a minute.



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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS

[Tac]

Lol, I forgot to change the mbd on that quote.

My 1st choice always was the ASUS, its rated quite well in all places ive seen it.

I copy/pasted the quotes, let me put it in this post so it wont look so confusing    
 

Thunderbird 1.3 GHz CPU (266 MHz FSB)
Full Tower ATX case
Power Supply to AMD approved 300 Watt ATX PS
Motherboard Asus A7A266-WA - built in Audio - Ultra/100 - 266/200 MHz FSB
Memory 768MB PC2100 DDR Memory (Three 128 MB)
Hard Drive 7200 RPM 60 GB Ultra/100
DVD Drive 16X Pioneer IDE DVD
Rewritable HP9500I 12/8/32X CDR-W - EIDE (ATAPI)
Sound Sound Blaster Live! 5.1(OEM)
Network Cards 3COM 3C905CX-TXM 10/100
Speakers Altec Lansing ACS-45.2 Subwoofer System
Monitor KDS VS-195E - 19 IN .26mm 1600 X 1280
Heavy Duty Heat Sink and Fan Assembly
 1.44 MB Floppy Drive
 104 Keyboard, Mouse
 Millennium Gold Service Plan on any system we assemble!

No vid card selected (think G-force 3   )

No modem (cable modem at home)

[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 04-25-2001).]

[bloom25]

Hmm, I notice that the only other choice for a MB is the Asus a7a266.  This again uses the Ali Magik 1 chipset.

For DDR Athlon systems I currently would recommend the AMD 760 chipset.  My second choice would be the Via kt266, but this chipset is brand new and likely to have some bugs that still need squashing.  I know this sounds harsh, but I wouldn't accept as a gift a system with an ALi chipset in it.  

Tac, have you priced out doing the system yourself?  I'd also save a little money and go to 256 or at most 512 megs of RAM.  Windows ME just isn't going to be able to use the extra.  You can save yourself a bundle by doing this.

I still prefer windows 98SE over ME, but unfortunately Microshaft is going to stick you with ME.

Do this for me Tac if you have some time -  Figure out what a system would cost using the following components:

Motherboard: Asus A7M266

Memory:  256 Mb Crucial PC2100 DDR ram.
( www.crucial.com  )

Hard drive:  60 GB IBM 7200 rpm ATA 100
Soundcard:  Soundblaster Live! Value or Xgamer

Video card: Anything with a GF2 GTS, PRO, or Ultra chipset.  They are all about the same.  The Asus v7700 pure is a good choice, but certainly not the only good choice.

Floppy drive:  Duh.  

Cd/Dvd drive:  Toshiba, Plextor, or Pioneer.

CD Rw drive: Plextors are pretty good.

Network card:  Any 10/100 card you feel like pricing.  Ask Skuzzy for his recommendation here.

Modem:  Same as above.  (Just don't buy a Motorola chipset modem.)

Power supply:  Sparkle, Enermax, or Antec 300W.

Case:  Get a good case.  This you can likely find in a local computer store.  Specifically examine how well you think it can be cooled.  Make sure it has room for an extra fan on the back.

Heatsink and fan:  I'd probably price out the Thermoengine with the default fan.  (It would be noisy if you get it with a delta fan.)  I think www.azzo.com  is supposed to be stocking these.  Be aware I've never ordered from them, but I did see this heatsink there.  They do appear to be reputable though.  Also, don't forget to get 2 case fans, one for the front and one for the rear of the case.

Feel free to ask more questions if you want.



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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS

[Vulcan]

Oh yeah the network card... buy something with the old DEC chipset (now branded Intel).

Ya can't go wrong with these. 3Com you pay a lot for a little, and 3Com are rumoured to be getting ready to ditch their NIC business.

In NZ I can pick up the Intel based NICs for about US$30   cheap as chips mate!

[Tac]

Asus A7M266 motherboard is 179.95 ( 6c8+EN/catalogs/1112" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.computerstop.com/cgi-bin/csi.filereader?3ae7a0000090cf24273fc0a864650 6c8+EN/catalogs/1112)

System without the MBD is 1650

total 1829 bucks.

The A7M266 mbd also comes with integrated sound (ooh I hate that, but what can I do? hehe)

Put it at 512mb (didnt know ME didnt take advantage of ram).

I usually keep my pc box open on one side,the pc in a ventilated place. What better cooling system?  

[Hajo]

I purchased off the shelf computers for years.  when the time came for an upgrade I found to my dismay that the MB could only be upgraded 33 to 50 Mhz.  also, after buying an off the shelf system I almost always found myself adding memory, upgrading the video and soundcards etc.

If you are somewhat handy with a screwdriver and can follow instructions building your own system is easy, and much cheaper in the long run.  You can also purchase a motherboard that you know you will be able to upgrade in the future, might take a BIOS flash, but it's much cheaper then buying a new PC.  also, the towers of off the shelf systems are made for looks, not for functionality.  Lots of us call off the shelf systems "knuckle busters".  Hardly any room inside the case to do anything without tearing something out, skinning your knuckles etc.

do a little research, get a full sized tower with a good power supply and build your system from there.  Saves time down the road, and fewer skin transplants will be needed from working in the off the shelf tower. When selecting the MB get one that you know you can upgrade down the road.

I built mine, already upgraded the processor, changed video cards etc. and flashed the BIOS.  Flashing the bios can be a white knuckle experience.  but by doing all the above, you save money, get what you want, and don't have to purchase a new PC in a year or two <G>  saves lots of aggrevation.

Hajo

[bloom25]

Something that I think most computer users eventually learn is that the most important part of a PC is the Motherboard.  It alone determines what you can do to upgrade it.  The rest of the stuff in a PC can often be reused from system to system until it becomes outdated or dies.  The floppy, cd drive, cd rw, hard drives, power supply, case, modem, sound card would be components that usually are good for a few years before they need replacing.  I don't include the video card here, they are really expensive and become obsolete VERY quickly.  I myself tend to lag about 6 months on video cards in my system to lessen the impact on my wallet.  



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bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS

[goat10]

All I can say is.....
I wish I had an AMD, but I have a P-4 from Gateway.   the   is for Gateway.
RAMBUS SUCKS! I have spent a Kings Ransom for it and Gateway said "you can upgrade with one chip", BULL S&!T! You need two chips to upgrade RAMBUS. Hindsight is 20/20, AMD 1,2 Gig all the way. If you do go with the P-4 then stay away from Windows ME and buy lots of RAM.

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I Hate It When That Happens!

[This message has been edited by goat10 (edited 04-26-2001).]

[Tac]

win98 does take advantage of 768 mb of ram and winME doesnt?

If thats the case I can easily format the HDD and put in win98  

Bloom: What is good about that MBD you said to get? Why is the other one bad? No need for details, just a general retardese language is required  

I'd like to thank ALL of you for this info, ive learned a lot and probably will save a lot of dough with it (or just use the unused cash to buy a neural interface and be the one laughing when you have my 38 in your 6 muahaha   )

<S> !!!!

[Degas]

Depending on the retailer, it's possible that you can specify Win98SE instead of crappy WinME.

Go with the AMD.  There have been issues with the TBird/Via chipsets playing well together, but the newest 4in1 drivers seems to have straightened that out.  Concur with bloom, get the MB with the AMD chipset if at all possible.  ALI sux, pure and simple.

Make sure you get 64 MB on the GeForce 2/DDR/Ultra card.

Upgrade to 300W Antec pwr supply (or equivalent) a must.

Don't worry about the onboard sound.  Make sure it's disabled in the CMOS and it takes up zero resources.  A lot of top of the line mainboards have it, along with their own joystick port.  Just ignore them.

If you have the time, build your own    This is one of life's satisfying experiences, kinda like that first time in the back seat of your parent's car.  It's not all that hard, and Asus has great tech support and documentation to help you along the way.

The Altec-Lansing speakers are ok.  I'm not an audiophile.  I have a system with A-L's, and another one with Klipsch Pro-Media's top of the line.  The difference is not worth mentioning, much less worth the extra 300 bucks you'll pay.  Sub woofer is important if you play with the speakers enabled.  I play through a Plantronics headset (because of Roger Wilco and an anal girlfriend), so I don't even use that kick-ass set of speakers, lol.

Again, I highly recommend the satisfactory and educational choice of building your own system.

[MrSiD]

Want a really COOL case?

Check out www.koolance.com  and if that didn't impress you, check out www.vapochill.com

I guarantee those products won't leave you.. erm.. warm.