Maneuver kill "tweaking"

[Dead Man Flying]

A few suggestions about proxy/manuever kills (and this from someone who receives a disproportionate number of kills from them):

(1)  Eliminate manuever kills for collision deaths.  If you die in the air with no cannon/mg damage, there's no death.  What kind of ACM merits reward for an unintended collision?

(2)  No kill rewarded to guns or ground vehicles for planes that auger within range of them without damage.  How exactly did that Ostwind outmanuever the undamaged P-51 anyway?

Thanks

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
How exactly did that Ostwind outmanuever the undamaged P-51 anyway?

Goaded it into being too aggressive?

[Innominate]

Definitly good ideas.  The same should apply to manned gun positions also.

[whgates3]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
...What kind of ACM merits reward for an unintended collision?...
[/B]

Charles Lamb (Swordfish pilot), w/ two Cr. 42s on his tail, dove to the deck (over water). from naught feet he concurrently zoomed & cut the throttle.  the reggia pilots on his tail, thinking he was in a powered climb (and consequently much higher up), dove on him and splashed.  that kind of ACM skill merits two kills (keeping the Swordfish from stalling), but they weren't rewarded, as he hadn't fired his guns...

[Innominate]

He said collisions, not crashes.
Unless I'm mistaken, the idea is to remove prox kills in some situations where you couldn't have done something to make the person crash.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by whgates3
Charles Lamb (Swordfish pilot), w/ two Cr. 42s on his tail, dove to the deck (over water). from naught feet he concurrently zoomed & cut the throttle.  the reggia pilots on his tail, thinking he was in a powered climb (and consequently much higher up), dove on him and splashed.  that kind of ACM skill merits two kills (keeping the Swordfish from stalling), but they weren't rewarded, as he hadn't fired his guns...

Innominate is correct.  This kind of kill would be rewarded under the system I've suggested (and it would punish those who would auger to avoid granting kills to others).  What it doesn't do is 1) grant a kill for someone blowing up in mid-air with no damage (aka colliding) if they don't possess any battle damage, and 2) doesn't reward proxy/manuever kills to manned guns or ground vehicles for planes the auger near them without any damage.

It's a more "honest" assessment of manuever killing IMO.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[senna]

Hum, I fondly remember having you in my sites once and then in a blink of an eye you put your lift vector at my prop and proceeded to kill me in this fashion. I never fired a shot but you got the kill. In other words you rammed me and I died Levi. I say both planes should go down in flames, nobody gets the kill. Thats what would happen in real life and I like real life outcomes in favor of gameplay outcomes. Just my opinion.

As a matter of fact Torque did the same thing to me a long time ago (not many have kilt me this way). I remember because when you get a good flieger in your sites and he kills you with his lift vector, it pretty much will piss you off. That will do it alright.

Anyways you both ended up flying off to kill others.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by senna
Hum, I fondly remember having you in my sites once and then in a blink of an eye you put your lift vector at my prop and proceeded to kill me in this fashion. I never fired a shot but you got the kill. In other words you rammed me and I died Levi. I say both planes should go down in flames, nobody gets the kill. Thats what would happen in real life and I like real life outcomes in favor of gameplay outcomes. Just my opinion.

[/B]

As I've stated, I've benefitted quite a bit from things being the way they are currently (though I can assure you that no ram was intentional on this end).  That still doesn't mean I don't advocate tweaking them to reflect a more realistic approach to rewarding manuever kills.  

In a perfect Internet environment, collisions should be mutual.  If you've ever played a very low lag H2H game, you'll find that this is exactly the case.  Nath and I have flown H2H before with 30ms ping to one another, and a ram was a ram for both.  However, you're missing the more general point I'm making about rewarding kills... it's not a matter of collisions being mutual or not, but rather one of awarding kills which are not the product of outflying another plane.  Even in the case of the no-lag collisions between Nath and me, the last one to die by milliseconds was still given a kill without firing a shot.  Why?

-- Todd/Leviathn

[senna]

Its ok Levi, there is a GOD and he has forgiven you. Unfortunately I am Islamic, thats why I died in that encounter. Long live the Ratafa Razza Jihad!!! Ala will save my soul and give me plenty of HOs in everlasting glory and heaven. The banner at the temple said three HOs for every Martyr.

lalalallaalalalalala!

[leitwolf]

(1) Eliminate manuever kills for collision deaths. If you die in the air with no cannon/mg damage, there's no death. What kind of ACM merits reward for an unintended collision?

A ramming attack against a buff.
Thats what desperation will do to you. It should still be a kill imho