For Vette lovers

[loser]

Originally posted by lazs2
yeah... and your car would perform better if it had the right guy driving it..  what's your point?   certainly not 25 ft lbs of torque?

I drive a richmond gear 6 speed and an m22 rockcrusher.    Maybe I would pick up that 25 ft lbs of torque that they are "weaker" if i just adjusted the clutch to slip like a torque converter does...    maybe someday when I get real old I will try another auto.   I never break manual trannies but I can destroy the best autos in 6 mos.   Heat is their enemy not torque.
lazs

mostly right here laz.  

Off the showroom floor i would take a stick over an auto any day because factory autos are so incredibly limp wristed that it makes my stomach turn.  Well maybe not that bad....

But there are tons of mods you can do to autos to make them crazy nutso.  

If you install a torque converter with a solid 3200 stall speed you are launching with the same revs as most stick drivers.  You are also keeping your ride manageable for day to day street driving.  

You can also set your tranny up with a tranny lock.  This fun little invention locks your transmission in 1st and 3rd gear or 1st and reverse until you pull your thumb off the "trigger" This little device allows you to launch so hard that low back seats that many a muscle car was fitted with dont cut it anymore.

Dropping that tranny pan and installing a full manual valve body is a must.  Some folks go the half arsed route and just toss in a "shift kit."  Shift kits are good of course, but still leave the shifting up to a few balls and springs.  Couple the full manual tranny to a good rachet shifter.


Of course you have a valid point here about heat and wear.  Manual trannys dont have to worry about overheating and fluid break down. (at least not near the extent of autos.)  But then again auto drivers dont have to worry about Mr. Clutch shattering and paying a visit to the interior of the car. (i know this is rare, and even the largest moron has a scatter shield.)\

I think it comes down to personal preference. Sticks are more reliable, autos are more consistent.  I dont care whether you use your left or right hand....the result is the same.

[lazs2]

loser... mostly right but...  you are not launching at the same speed with a 3200 rpm stall converter.   I dump the clutch at 4500 in my healey and... I am not driving around with the clutch slipping like the high stall tc guys... I had a full manual body th350 in the healey once that someone talked me into.   he built it for me and..... I was never so bored in my life.  

Now... ya wanna talk tough... go ahead and put that auto in neutral and rev it to 4500 and then drop it into gear... just like dumping the clutch.   lets see about that vaunted  "torque handling ability".  I think that you will find that scattershields are not just for sticks.

I agree that autos with computer hookups and trans brakes etc.. are more consistent but.... I grew up on tracks where the first man to cross the line won..  On the street... that is still the case.

on the street... a lot of guys simply don't know how fun and versitile a stick can be.  I have converted a few auto guys by letting em drive my car.  The thing that is said the most about the 6 speed is "i gotta get one of these"   downside is that they are about $3,000 but... I ask em "how much did the last rebuild on your 700r cost?"
lazs

[funkedup]

1948

[hblair]

Dumb question funked, is that a ferrari dino?

[AKDejaVu]

Dinos weren't roadsters...

[funkedup]

It's a 166 Mille Miglia, aka "Barchetta"
2 liter V-12 - You GOTTA hear these things wind out.  

It's the car that all the Jags and Healeys and BMWs and Chevys were emulating.

The two biggest sports car races in Europe (and the world) were the 24 Heures du Mans and the Mille Miglia, and this thing won both.  It was also a perfectly usable 2-seat street car.

[funkedup]

HB that 34 is byoooteeful.  Much better looking than Lazs' Penelope Pitstop Special.

[Sikboy]

Ok, how about this:

British Convertable, Italian Design, MOPAR engine.


-Sikboy

[loser]

Originally posted by lazs2
loser... mostly right but...  you are not launching at the same speed with a 3200 rpm stall converter.   I dump the clutch at 4500 in my healey and... I am not driving around with the clutch slipping like the high stall tc guys... I had a full manual body th350 in the healey once that someone talked me into.   he built it for me and..... I was never so bored in my life.  

Now... ya wanna talk tough... go ahead and put that auto in neutral and rev it to 4500 and then drop it into gear... just like dumping the clutch.   lets see about that vaunted  "torque handling ability".  I think that you will find that scattershields are not just for sticks.

I agree that autos with computer hookups and trans brakes etc.. are more consistent but.... I grew up on tracks where the first man to cross the line won..  On the street... that is still the case.

on the street... a lot of guys simply don't know how fun and versitile a stick can be.  I have converted a few auto guys by letting em drive my car.  The thing that is said the most about the 6 speed is "i gotta get one of these"   downside is that they are about $3,000 but... I ask em "how much did the last rebuild on your 700r cost?"
lazs

lazs it seems you know a fair bit about cars.  So you must know that a neutral drop has nothing to do with a trans lock set up.

You also must know that launching a healy of 2000 pounds is nothing like launching a 3500 pound muscle car.

My brother drives a 1968 Plymouth GTX 440 Magnum done to the nuts coupled to a race hemi 4 speed tranny. (the exact gear ratios escape me.) 4.88s out back in a dana 60

I drive a 1970 Plymouth Valiant Duster 340 with a purple shaft (the rest is stock) and the tranny set up i described.  Irun a 727 with a 8.75 rear end 3.23 OPEN.  No spool, no posi, nothing.   Only a set up McCreary Roadstars to aid my traction system.

I am always first over the line from 0 to 1320 feet when we play.

[hblair]

rgr funked, Deja. You like rush's song 'red barchetta'? Cool song.

[lazs2]

funked.. ferrarris are king of style.. or were..   the 38 alfa spider was a landmark style car too.

loser..  Stock 70 dusters with auto and 3.23 gears ran 14.72 back in 1970 (car life 3/70)... very respectable, a light car..   The GTX with 440 and auto with 3.23 gears would run 14.6  (car life 2/68)  4 speed cars were allways a tiny bit faster but usually had lower gearing.    To get the results you guys get means that something is wrong with his car or the way he drives it.   What are your times?  Do you have 0-30 times?  

and yes... I know what a tans brake is but you won't launch an auto car at 4500 with one.   I can do it easily.   In the big heavy chevelle I can have the equivelent of 4.56 gears 4 speed and then shift two more gears for practicality...  the 3.30 low (first) launches the 3700 lb car well and at any RPM I choose.   well... am suffering from some wheel hop right now but have a solution.

thing is.. on the street is different than at the drags.  I don't compete at the drags anymore but I do enjoy the advantages and fun factor that a standard trans gives in the real world.   Both of my cars have extensive suspension mods so they handle  decent..  I like having a manual to take advantage of this.  I feel that auto trans kills the fun and versitility of a car.   I can shift a good manual pretty well after all these years so am fairly consistent... good enough for the girls I go out with anyhow.   I don't have autos cars getting much of an advantage on me as I shift.   they have time to observe too since they are doing nothing important at the time and they tell me that I actually pull a little when I shift.  If I don't lose ground I'm happy tho.

autos are better than they ever were but... they still suck up a lot of horsepower, aren't very versitile, are heavy, build up a lot of heat and well..... they just are not very fun.   With modern 5 and 6 speeds I can't imagine anyone other than a trailer queen quarter miler car using one.
lazs

[senna]

No thats not a Dino hblair, I think its a British car.

[Grayeagle]

On the new Vette look:

Looks a lot like a Viper to me.

On the Auto vs. Manual discussion:

I was a die-hard 4 speed user for quite awhile.
'67 HEMI GTX 4-speed was my first 'fast' car.
It's the car that I learned how to shift 'fast' with.
Tunnel ram tuning 101 began with it.

'69 426 wedge motored Road Runner.. 4-speed car.
Started life as a 383 car, owned and ran it for 9 years.

'64 Chevell Malibu ..my first 'project' car.. L-88 with LS-6 heads ported an shaved ..final compression ratio was 13:1..  
First car I ever owned that I broke everything on .. sooner or later.
I learned that an aluminum case Muncie .. rock crusher or standard.. is for light cars with no horsepower or traction.
I scattered 3 of them before going to a cast iron T-10.. then I twisted the chrome moly driveshaft.. and it went on from there.
It was a fast car .. when it stayed together.
With 4:11's in the back I could stand it up purty good in second ..useda scare the wannabe racers real good with that trick :) 3500 rpm, 35mph, let the clutch out a bit fast then hammer it, .. the front wheels would touch down just as I hit 7k rpm on the tach and time for 3rd. Yes.. it was a high windin 427.. it *liked* 7k.

People useda ask me if I ran an automatic in it .. because I shifted so fast and smooth. Learned on a Chrysler 4-speed.. and everything else seems like a toy. Lightweight.

On a lark, I built myself a 440 powered Duster.
4-speed in it at first.
It would go sideways at 35mph just comin onto the cam in second gear. Squirrely MOTHER!!.
No way 'street tires' would ever work on it.

I wanted to bracket race .. and the first couple times out, that 4-speed was just killin me. I'd slam second after a great launch and the car would drift sideways until the tires hooked ..sometimes all the way to steering lock and I'd have to back off.
Friends of mine said it looked scary .. it felt that way too!
Busted my bellybutton tryin to figure out somethin to get it straight.
Slick pressures, Pinion snubber, ladder bars, ..no joy.

Friend of mine offered me a straight up trade.. he wanted to put his race car back on the street, originally a 4 speed car, and we swapped the whole setup.
First auto car I had ever tried.
Well .. car went straight first time out.
Cut ET's within 2-3 *hundredths* on each pass.

I did well with it.
Duster weighed in at 3020 lbs with a full tank.
(glas hood, purty well gutted, caged)
Friends stock duster 340 4-speed car weighed in at 3200 lbs.
-grin- .. another friend who swore his '65 Vette 327 4 gear was lighter than either of us came in at 3570 lbs.

My best ET was 10.27 at Pomona .. tried for the Pro Gas field there one weekend. Wasn't quite fast enough.
-evil grin- ..was the only one there with license plates, turn signals that worked, etc :)

I bracket raced that car on and off for 18 years.
Never broke anything on it.
Evolved from six-pac carbs to full on tunnel ram, 10" converter down to 8" ..3.91's to 4.89's.
It was *fun* to cruise in. Sittin at a stoplight surrounded by Toyota's .. those solid lifters just cacklin and the cam syncopating a marvelous tune. (.590" 310deg purple shaft at the last)

My chevelle was faster. My Duster was more fun.
I useda drive both of em back and forth to work .. just because I could.

-GE

[Grayeagle]

Duster pix ;)

[senna]

Heres another duster.

LOL