Author Topic: So there I was... (Read 331 times)

H. Godwineson · « **on:** September 04, 2002, 10:43:43 AM »

...tooling along in my F6F with a good bit of smash (between 275 and 300 mph). Boring in from my high 12 o'clock is an enemy con (a Nik). I have dropped my nose to maximize my energy. He's diving toward me and when he gets directly above me (looking straight up through the canopy) he rolls inverted and attempts to pull onto my six.

OK my friend, I think, you've got too much energy to quickly reverse out of that inverted dive and pull onto my six if I go vertical. So I go into a loop, pulling about 3 g's. About 3/4s of the way through the loop he shoots my horizontal tail surfaces off.

BS I think!

How'd he do that?

Puzzled, Shuckins

Innominate · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2002, 12:17:45 PM »

He's flying a n1k2. Don't ever try and fight a n1k2 in the vertical unless you have a huge e advantage, even then it's iffy.

The n1k2 is a helicopter, not an airplane.

H. Godwineson · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2002, 12:34:34 PM »

Innominate,

Thanks for the reply!

But isn't that a bit unreal? I have read that even the LW Japanese fighters had problems in pulling out of high-g dives because they were likely to overstress their airfoils. In addition, there is the matter of simple physics. The turn radius for the Nik in the above situation, because of his excess speed, is supposed to be much larger than mine. He shouldn't be able to reverse that quickly out of his dive. (Unfortunately I wasn't filming at the time.)

I have heard of the Nik's ability (in AH) to hang on it's prop in the vertical at speeds under 100 knots. The power-to-weight ratio of that aircraft should not allow it to perform that type of manuever. A Zero could do it perhaps, but not for very long. The Nik was fairly heavy for a Japanese fighter, and shouldn't have that kind of maneuverability.

Anybody else have actual performance data on the Nik?

Regards, Shuckins

Innominate · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2002, 12:39:43 PM »

The n1k2 was a very maneuverable plane. It had a complex auto-flap system which would automaticly deploy flaps as needed. Only about 400 were built. (Funny it's the in the top 5 most common fighters)

In AH, it is able to dive with any american fighter, able to hang on it's prop like a p38, and execute high-g 180 degree turns without slowing down.

Again, Never try and get above a n1k2, it makes you an easy floating kill as said dweeb sprays from 1.2k directly below you.

Don't bother squeaking about it. It's pointless.

J_A_B · « **Reply #4 on:** September 04, 2002, 01:25:09 PM »

"I have heard of the Nik's ability (in AH) to hang on it's prop in the vertical at speeds under 100 knots. "

It can't do this. It can't even maintain anywhere CLOSE to a vertical climb; even a 45-degree climb causes it to rapidly stall.

What it CAN do is fly right to the edge of the stall under complete control, and combined with its large amont of 20mm ammo this is often enough to let it get a lucky long-range shot in. If you avoid the "spray" however, the N1K will very much stall out.

J_A_B

Innominate · « **Reply #5 on:** September 04, 2002, 01:35:06 PM »

jab, no, it cant climb, but it can hover for an insane amount of time, completly under control. Hence "hang" not "climb".

Mathman · « **Reply #6 on:** September 04, 2002, 02:43:56 PM »

The reason he was able to shoot you down is very simple. You didn't make in out of plane maneuvers. Next time, try and add a roll or something to make him have to correct using control inouts beyond just pulling back on the stick.

SKurj · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2002, 04:19:20 PM »

hmm seems easily possible to me...

Perhaps he had throttle closed in dive ... u pulled 3g... he could have easily got inside you...

SKurj

SpinDoc1 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 05, 2002, 08:25:31 AM »

J_A_B and Inom, check this out:

To pull the insane climbing manuever of the N1k, go offline and select an N1k with like 50% fuel. Take off and pull up the nose until you reach a constant speed of like 80-90 kts. You will notice that you can fly on the edge of the stall buzzer at ~85 kts while climbing at 3000 fpm. Impossible? I didn't think any plane in existence could do that, but it can. I HATE that plane for reasons such as this.

Jason

J_A_B · « **Reply #9 on:** September 05, 2002, 02:06:34 PM »

"Impossible? I didn't think any plane in existence could do that, but it can. I HATE that plane for reasons such as this. "

And notice several things:

First, your airspeed is so slow in such a maneuver that you're an easy target, unable to quickly change directions and able to only go down (predictable) at any rate. If an enemy N1K wants to turn himself into a sitting duck, that's fine by me!

Second, the ANGLE of the climb you maintain at that speed isn't anything special (less than 45 degrees); any good vertical maneuvering would totally invalidate this as a viable tactic. Indeed, when doing such a climb the N1K is riding the stall buzzer and can't pull up at all; being above the N1K in such a situation would be in a position of absolute safety, and when you drop on him the only option he'd have is to show you his tail (easy kill).

Third, 3000 FPM is far from the BEST climbrate of the N1K so anybody stupid enough to try doing this online is only hurting himself.

I do assume, of course, that the person engaging the N1K has an "E" advantage. If you're co-E in a plane like an F6F or Typhoon, you can expect to die since you're just playing into his strengths. Likewise, if you're in a Zeke or FM2, a co-E N1K isn't tough to deal with.

Again, the N1K2 can maintain control right up to the edge of a stall, so in a vertical rope-a-dope maneuver they can sometimes "hang" long enough to spray you with 20mm; this is why it's wise to do a bit of a turn as you go vertical (out-of-plane maneuver). Overall though, N1K's aren't any more dangerous than any of the other common aircraft in AH.

J_A_B

Montezuma · « **Reply #10 on:** September 05, 2002, 03:04:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mathman
The reason he was able to shoot you down is very simple. You didn't make in out of plane maneuvers. Next time, try and add a roll or something to make him have to correct using control inouts beyond just pulling back on the stick.

Ding! Ding! That is the correct answer. Never pull straight up with someone diving on your 6, you might give them an easy shot.

In that situation, I would try to dodge the pass then get nose down quick for when he overshoots below you. It is risky, but having someone diving on your 6 isn't the best situation to begin with.

Don't listen to the N1K2 whiners.

Hornet · « **Reply #11 on:** September 05, 2002, 04:30:40 PM »

get on that rudder...the hellcat has a great one and like mathman said get movin outta plane, next time he'll miss that shot.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #12 on:** September 06, 2002, 01:30:13 AM »

The weakness of a N1K2 is that it can't roll at high speeds.

Use this information any way you choose.