Author Topic: Aspect Ratio  (Read 782 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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Aspect Ratio
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2002, 06:34:26 PM »
Large ascpect ratio...
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Offline Wilbus

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Aspect Ratio
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2002, 07:53:05 PM »
Yup, I know that gliders and similair have large aspect ratio but why? I should read up on aerodynamics, darnit, flying gliders my self...
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline bozon

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Aspect Ratio
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2002, 11:43:24 AM »
if you want to compare the effect of two wings with different aspect-ratios you need to keep the wing-area constant, IMO.
other factors like crosssection and general shape matter too, so you can't really compare a spit's eliptic wing to a thin rectangular ta152 wing.

the only thing high aspect ratio buys you is a smaller wingtip turbulance (but just try rolling with a glider...).

but I'm no aero-engineer.
Bozon
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline niklas

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Aspect Ratio
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2002, 05:07:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
Yup, I know that gliders and similair have large aspect ratio but why? I should read up on aerodynamics, darnit, flying gliders my self...


The higher the aspect ratio, the more you have a 1-dimensional airflow over the wing. The air flow is pushed away over the wing, and sidewards. The air pushed away sidewards causes losses without lift. Furhtermore you have - like bozon mentioned - a pressure equalization at the wingtips. Again, the higher the aspect ratio, the lower the losses are relativ to total lift. So a high aspect ratio increases the total lift efficiency. If you look at the wingtips of the sailing plane, those little vertical fins show up on many aircraft recently. They probably increase the efficiency because they prevent the pressure equalization and force even more a 1-dimensional air flow over the wing.
The fuselage too is a disturbing factor, the farer away the wing section is from the fuselage, the lower the influence.

niklas

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2002, 04:45:15 AM »
Ok so as the lift is greater, the climb should be greater aswell, right? Or is it just that the lift is greater so the plane can stay up in lower speeds?
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Angus

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« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2002, 04:57:08 AM »
What Niklas said petty much hits the point. Higher aspect ratio increases the total lift efficiency of the wing. But its just one factor regarding lift and drag, Wing loading and span loading also have to be taken into account.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline straffo

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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2002, 04:59:18 AM »
remind me of the Hurel Dubois 34


Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2002, 06:40:49 AM »
Woooooo Straffo, can I have? :)
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2002, 08:34:47 AM »
only 7/8 were build :(

sadly as I know there is no flyin HD34 now :(


Offline bozon

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Aspect Ratio
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2002, 09:43:53 AM »
Quote

Ok so as the lift is greater, the climb should be greater aswell, right? Or is it just that the lift is greater so the plane can stay up in lower speeds?

to test a theory, my physics teacher taught me to look at an extream case:
a helicopter - is a plane with no wings (no lift) that climbs on it's propeller thrust only, and can stay up at 0 speed.
therefor climb-rate depends on other things as well.

to achive max (sustained) climb-rate, it's easier to consider energy balance. the engine produces energy that is devoured by the drag - what ever is left is going into potential energy - alt (while keeping speed constant).
so to climb at maximum rate you need to fly at a speed that gives minimum drag.

to cut things short, since you are interested in aspect-ratio:
high aspect ratio increaces the efficiency of the wing in high attack-angles (by reducing wingtip turbulance). they will tend to move the "minimum drag" point to a slower speed.
so in general you can say that high aspect-ratio is better for slow speeds / high angles-of-attack flying than a low aspect-ratio of the same area & general shape wing.

there are so many other factors to consider that saying more than that would require writing a book.

Bozon
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline Wilbus

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Aspect Ratio
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2002, 10:49:29 AM »
Rgr Thanks :)
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline dtango

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« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2002, 11:07:10 AM »
Wilbus:

To put it simply rate of climb is a function of excess power and not lift.

You are correct however in saying that more lift could translate into an aircraft having a lower level stall speed.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2002, 11:25:22 AM »
thanks again :)

Straffo, what was it used for???
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2002, 05:54:56 AM »
oups ... forgot this thread :)

I was used for "cartographie" aka making map the IGN (*) used it


(*) institut géographique national

Offline Imp

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« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2002, 06:17:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
to test a theory, my physics teacher taught me to look at an extream case:
a helicopter - is a plane with no wings (no lift) that climbs on it's propeller thrust only, and can stay up at 0 speed.
therefor climb-rate depends on other things as well.


Helicopters do have wings bozon theyre called rotary wings :D

The collective changes the angle of the blades to create more lift.

The cyclic makes the blade go up and down during the rotation to create more or less lift wich allows you to change direction.

P.S: Am I fishing or did you use it as an example only and already know all this :D