Author Topic: Missed opportunity?  (Read 1716 times)

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2002, 03:10:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
Has it ever crossed the minds of any of you experten enviromentalists that perhaps the best strategy is to use up someone else's oil reserves first, rather than deplete our own?


At the price of war?

Offline popeye

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« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2002, 03:57:08 PM »
Customers who bought titles by Bjorn Lomborg also bought titles by these authors:

Bernard Goldberg
Joel Best
Ann H. Coulter
Robert D. Kaplan
Kenneth R. Timmerman
KONG

Where is Major Kong?!?

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2002, 04:03:11 PM »
I don't have any books by those authors.  Lomborg's book is excellent.  I've been involved in the energy conservation field since 1986 and he knows what he's talking about.  If you do things that "seem" right, without doing a cost/benefit analysis, you can screw things up pretty badly.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2002, 04:05:37 PM by funkedup »

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2002, 04:08:58 PM »
A good example of an "Apollo Program" for energy (huge expenditure for the sake of implementing new technology) is the California ZEV initiative.
Read it and weep.
Another article.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2002, 04:20:50 PM by funkedup »

Offline Rude

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« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2002, 04:15:04 PM »
Rip.......

You really believe this is soley about oil?

Stability of the region which effects the flow of oil yes, but not the same as what I said earlier.

Offline Nefarious

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« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2002, 05:09:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rude


That is not only the remark of a simpleton, but is laughable as well. I believe you to be highly impressionable and young I hope....at least that would be a good excuse for that remark.



"Human Activity has no link to Global Warming"

That is the remark of a Simpleton.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2002, 05:25:03 PM »
Hey Nefari, prove it.  :)
No scientists have done so, maybe you can win the Nobel prize.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2002, 05:29:15 PM »
"Human activities have altered the chemical composition of the atmosphere through the buildup of greenhouse gases – primarily carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide. The heat-trapping property of these gases is undisputed although uncertainties exist about exactly how earth’s climate responds to them. Go to the Emissions section for much more on greenhouse gases."

from

The EPA

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2002, 05:33:50 PM »
And?

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2002, 05:53:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
And?


Dammit Funked, don't make me come over there with a thermometer!!!

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2002, 05:58:06 PM »
LOL!!! :D

Offline JB73

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« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2002, 06:25:35 PM »
yeah midnight we all know the EPA always gives completly factual information out...

just like in the late 80's when the garbarge barge wasn't allowed to dock. Landfill owners were unsure if there was any hazardous materials on it .. NOT because they had no space like the good 'ol EPA made the public believe...

of course then the EPA put out a battery of statistice saying we would run out of landfill space in 20 yrs.  (the then assistant director admitted in 1999 that the stats. were flawed)

this put in the public conscience the need to recycle everything.

it doesn't matter that the annual budget uses over $1 billion tax dollars on sorting and storing the curbside "recycled" waste that noone has any use for.

the EPA also did a excavation of a 20 yr. old landfill in AZ and it's findings were less than 1/2 of 1% was styrofoam and less than .5% total mass was plastic. a half eaten hotdog was more recognizable than 1 plastic bag. (these bags were before we had developed bio-degrading thinner bags).

once this study was complete the EPA decided that the info was irrelevant and didn't need to publish these stats publically

don't get me wrong... INDUSTRIAL recycling in a must.
the waste generated by factories is usually raw material type and easy to recover.

so think twice before you trust anything stated by a orginization that only gets funded for causes that it can prove are enviromently sound.


if you want a copy of the report i did on this subject in college (including my sources of statistics)email me: dmray_1@yahoo.com
« Last Edit: September 12, 2002, 06:27:48 PM by JB73 »
I don't know what to put here yet.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2002, 07:05:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Wrong.  The caribou population INCREASED after we laid the Alaskan pipeline, they have patrols that have to reduce the herds yearly now. Go figure.


Got numbers on that?

I was talking about the proposed field.  Not the existing one.

PS: Nevermind, found my own.

"A series of scientific papers published since 1992 consistently show that the caribou population has increased dramatically during the period of oil field development, and caribou herds regularly use ranges in the oil fields"

Got to find info on caribo population projections for the proposed project.

Thanks for the heads up.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2002, 07:14:51 PM »
"The coastal plain is the biological heart of the Refuge, to which the vast Porcupine River caribou herd migrates each spring to give birth. The Department of Interior has concluded that development in the coastal plain would result in major adverse impacts on the caribou population. According to biologists from the Alaska Department of Fish and Game caribou inhabiting the oil fields do not thrive as well as members of the same herd that seldom encounter oil-related facilities."


"Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt has likened drilling in the Refuge to damming up the Grand Canyon; "

The US's Department of the Interior's report can be found here.
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/1002/

"From the mid-1970s through the mid-1980s, use of calving and summer habitats by Central Arctic herd caribou (Rangifer tarandus granti) declined near petroleum development infrastructure on Alaska’s arctic coastal plain (Cameron et al. 1979; Cameron and Whitten 1980; Smith and Cameron 1983; Whitten and Cameron 1983a, 1985; Dau and Cameron 1986)."

"Since 1978, changes in the distribution of calving caribou associated with the Kuparuk petroleum development area, west of Prudhoe Bay (Fig. 4.1), have been quantified using strip-transect surveys flown by helicopter.

"After construction of a road system near Milne Point, mean caribou abundance declined by more than two-thirds within 2 km from a road and was less than expected, overall, within 4 km; but nearly doubled 4-6 km from roads (Fig. 4.3) (Cameron et al. 1992b). Prior to road placement, caribou were found in a single, more-or-less continuous concentration roughly centered where the Milne Point Road was subsequently built. After construction of the road, a bimodal distribution with separate concentrations east and west of the road was clearly apparent (Fig. 4.4) (Smith and Cameron 1992), indicating avoidance of infrastructure by calving caribou."

Anyway there's alot more like that.  There may have been a net increase in the caribo population but that was do to other factors.  Oil fields DO lead to a decrease in caribou populations.

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2002, 07:22:36 PM »
Let's see...
Happy Caribou
OR
World peace and economic stability

Hmmmmmmmmm I CAN'T DECIDE!!!!!!!!!!