Author Topic: 9/11 Opinions of todays youth  (Read 1556 times)

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #60 on: September 12, 2002, 02:28:43 PM »
The operation was not to get Saddam out of power. Just because fighting is in the country, it doesn't mean we were there to defeat it.

That wasn't the plan in 'Nam. Plan was to keep the N Vietnamese out of the South. But we crossed the line plenty of times.

The plan in Iraq/Kuwait was to get Saddam out of Kuwait. End of story.

Maybe you should actually read up on why the Gulf War happened rather than throw in second hand conjecture?

"Calling me idiot only proves me right."

No, not even your own words prove you right.

"With Gulf War I refer to the whole war in Iraq-Kuwait area. "

The Gulf War was to get Saddam and his forces out of Kuwait. Beyond that, you are inventing things.


"Clearly americans had the opportunity to go in and take out Saddam, just like that one general wanted to, but politicians - american politicians - had other thoughts..
..or, maybe they just left Saddam in power to have an excuse in the future to have another war?
They were already in Iraq.. that isn't anymore "defend kuwait" operation.
Sure it might be aggressive pre-emptive defensive operation, but that falls to attacking and attack took place in Iraq soil."

We could of gone in and taken out Saddam, at that point in time it wasn't thought necessary. I mean, UN weapons inspections, abiding to our requests.. he did that. Then he stopped. Now we see there is no reasoning, he must be taken out.

Yeah, we went into Iraq... not with the intent of invading, destroying and conquering.

But, like I said.. you should read up on why the Gulf War was fought. Not why you think it was fought, and not what you think it was.

Of course, it's easy to second guess from the side lines with very little to no information.
-SW

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2002, 02:30:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
Clearly americans had the opportunity to go in and take out Saddam, just like that one general wanted to, but politicians - american politicians - had other thoughts..


Exactly how clear was it again? Not very.  I know that a lot of us like to play monday morning QB on this. A LOT of people in the US believe that it was a huge mistake to not take Sadam out, and maybe it was. However, at the time it was not at all clear that we had the opportunity to do so. The coalition was formed under the pretense that the goal was getting Iraq out of Kuwait. We used Arab bases and had Arab support based on this. Had we changed the war aims, what are the odds that we would have kept the coalition in place? What are the odds that our Arab Allies would have cooperated as we unseated an Arab government, even one such as Sadam? How many of our European allies would have stayed on board had we changed the war aims? President Bush played it safe. In retrospect we can see that getting rid of Sadam would have been a great help to the Iraqi people, and would have removed a thorn in the side from US Foreign Policy. But back in Dec 1990, walking up to Baghdad was not clearly the best option.

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Offline gofaster

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« Reply #62 on: September 12, 2002, 02:53:05 PM »
Well, that's all well and good, but what do today's college students care about Desert Shield/Storm?  That was, like, 10 years ago, dude.  That's ancient history! :p

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #63 on: September 12, 2002, 03:10:36 PM »
Thankyou Rude, this is a perfect example of what I was pointing out about the internal US attitude to your external actions. Fair enough the USA does a toejamload for some countries, and fair enough the USA needs to look after its own interests.

But... if other (nutcase) nations don't like it you are now seeing their alternative response on your home soil. And there seems to be an abundance of nutcase nations in the world these days.

Quote
Originally posted by Rude
If other nations don't like it, then don't dance with us. Don't trade with us, don't take our foriegn aid and don't call us when Sadaam or some other flake knocks on your door and chops your head off.

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #64 on: September 12, 2002, 03:21:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan

But... if other (nutcase) nations don't like it you are now seeing their alternative response on your home soil. And there seems to be an abundance of nutcase nations in the world these days.


What Nation might that be?


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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2002, 04:05:51 PM »
Regarding UN rutabagas:

Somebody said that the UN rutabagas just tried to keep the peace between the two warring sides...  

Well this is 100% true. They tried to keep the left wing eurotrash popsicle intellectual socialist gutless version of peace. The kind of peace that that was kept at Munich in 1938.  They came into Croatia just when our forces stabilzed the Serbian incursions and began to push them back. By this time 30% of our territory was occupied and being clensed. The UN cowards then just did nothing. They were satisfied because they saw it as peace. I dont see it as peace when 30% of your country was occupied and you werent allowed to defend yourself or take it back.

Honestly how many of you leftists would be happy if 30% of your country  was invaded by somebody and some UN bluehat rutabagas did nothing but get in the way?

At least they got in the way in Croatia. In bosnia their cowardice and usless nature reached an extreme.  First of all they completly abandoned Sarajevo leading to a  years long seige not seen since Leningrad in WW2.

Then they set up so called safe areas, luring tens of thousands of refugess into them.  These widely advertised safe areas were hailed as edens of international safety and protection. Yep they were probably the safet place for Serbian armies.  The Serbian army just showed up and rounded up all the men and boys, put them on busses and took them to..... Geneva?  Thousands of Bosnians were slaughtered in one incident while the UN toy soldiers watched them being taken away. All of this was even captured on video.  The UN rutabagas did nothing.  In fact they were degenerate and despicable in their behavior that they ran over some of the crowds in their APCs when running away in confusion( Afraid popsicle Cars in UN speak ).

Then the UN rutabagas actually became good at "protecting" something. Yep they became excelent volunteer night watchmen at Serbian ammo dumps and radar sites. They were so dedicated to their work they even shackled themselves to the buidings. Commendable! :rolleyes:

Thankfully those innocent people did not ulitimately die in vain. The USA saw this discrace and along with Britain actually took real action. Real action of the sort not likely to be taken by UN  rutabagas.

The US army helped the Croatioan army plan an offensive in 1995 which combined with heavy US airstrikes cleared most of the last Serb occupied zones. Then our forces swept into bosnia linking  with our Bosnian allies and swep the invaders away.  Further airstrikes around Sarajevo and US ( not popsicle UN) diplomatic action helped secure a more reasonable concluion.

The UN peacekeepers are useless, not neccesarily because the individuals are unworthy but because they as a group are unwilling to risk death. And an armed force unwilling to face possible death in accomplishing a mission is useless. They are rutabagas. Thats why it takes USA to do anything, Americans will fight.  And dont any of you come heretelling me of how many UN bluehats were killed by random landmines and snipers or were taken hostage, that only proves they were there.  How many were killed in actuall battle?

They are useless and only serve to make the self righteus UN popsicle meddling guilt ridden diplomats feel better.

The UN should only be used to give out food and aid and deal with women, childeren and old men. They have amply proven their inabilty to deal with dangerous men.

Regarding leftist degenerates:

They are simply wrong, just as the KKK is wrong. The difference is not many KKK grand dragons or whatever they call themselves have TV shows and tenure at Harvard.

Noam Chomsky is an idiot. He solves all the worlds problems from the precarious position of his classrom - braving badly written student papers and the occasional AC system breakdown. His standard answer is "blame the USA" and "blame the west". He is pathetic. I suppose he is appealing to leftist youth because he gives  them simplistic childish solutions they can easily understand and accept - primarily because it fits in with their naive utopian ideas.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2002, 04:21:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LoneStarBuckeye
MT:

You at once mischaracterized and failed to adress my post, with just a touch of discrediting indignation.  Very nice.  Maybe the wrong one of us is a lawyer (although, I must confess, I've never seen the phrase "blow it out your ass" in a brief).

- JNOV


Why thank you sir.

Actually I had no intention of directly addressing your post, your post just gave me the little shove I needed to add my 2 cents. Consequently the "blow it out your ass" was not directed at you per se.

Upon further review though (I'm ready for football),
I think I addressed almost everything you wrote, and as to mischaracterizing, well maybe a little.

Offline Thud

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« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2002, 04:31:46 PM »
Hmmm, not entirely untrue..... But the abundant use of the word UN rutabagas did not much for your argument. Especially since the majority of those rutabagas who went peacekeeping have more courage in their left toe than you in your entire etc..... It's not easy to take a stand against an superior enemy while you can only defend yourself with a blue helmet, rifle and nicely white spraypainted truck.

Of course f you were only referring to the leading figures in the UN I stand almost corrected, on the other hand, the UN and it's security Counsil are democratic institutions which means they listen to eachother etc. which takes time.

BTW, It seems you confuse the words leftist and UN quite often...

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2002, 04:41:48 PM »
Well I certainly feel that the UN leadership is at fault for the poor performance of UN "troops" in the field.  I suppose its just like the Italians during WW2 - their leadership sucked.

As for confusing leftist and UN. I dont think im too far off the bat. Most of the UN seem quite happy to join radical leftistist in their foolish USA bashing.

The "UN rutabagas" is entirely personal for me because I feel they betrayed and let down too many innocent people who believed the UN could help in my country. Im sure Rwandans, Somalis and others would not disagree too much with me here. so I really don't care what impact this might have on the perception of my argument.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2002, 04:47:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Well I certainly feel that the UN leadership is at fault for the poor performance of UN "troops" in the field.  I suppose its just like the Italians during WW2 - their leadership sucked.

As for confusing leftist and UN. I dont think im too far off the bat. Most of the UN seem quite happy to join radical leftistist in their foolish USA bashing.

The "UN rutabagas" is entirely personal for me because I feel they betrayed and let down too many innocent people who believed the UN could help in my country. Im sure Rwandans, Somalis and others would not disagree too much with me here. so I really don't care what impact this might have on the perception of my argument.


Just what is your "country" GRun? Aren't you being multicultural?

Offline Rude

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« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2002, 04:47:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Thankyou Rude, this is a perfect example of what I was pointing out about the internal US attitude to your external actions. Fair enough the USA does a toejamload for some countries, and fair enough the USA needs to look after its own interests.

But... if other (nutcase) nations don't like it you are now seeing their alternative response on your home soil. And there seems to be an abundance of nutcase nations in the world these days.

 


You are correct and I don't have a problem with how another nation might respond to the USA....what I do have a problem with, is other nations who accept our help, be it monetary or otherwise and then back off when the going gets tough or more commonly of late, lack the fortitude to stand up for what is right.

Trust me on this one....the United States is more than capable of taking care of itself....we do not need anymore allies like the one's we've had.

The concept of good and evil have existed since the beginning....the abilility to decern the difference requires slightly more of us all, along with strength of character to defeat it. The UN is a non-entity in world affairs today...they resemble a bank clearing house more than the institution for which it was originally designed.

Sorry for ramblin...nothing I say here will change a thing, so I'm going to go home now and fly....it's squadnight for the 13th:)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2002, 05:04:15 PM »
My country?   Obviously Croatia or the old Yugoslavia  when I speak of UN bluehat degenerate rutabagas.

What was your point?

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2002, 05:20:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
My country?   Obviously Croatia or the old Yugoslavia  when I speak of UN bluehat degenerate rutabagas.

What was your point?


That would make you a Croatian American? NM, if you don't get it I don't want to go into it. Read up.

Offline LoneStarBuckeye

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« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2002, 05:34:28 PM »
GRUNHERZ:

He is directing you to my earlier post (and his response thereto) in which I desribed multiculturalism as part of the extreme left's one-two combination to "knock out" America.  You may want to sit this one out, though.  My post is long and not a very good read, and it's never a good idea to fight a shark in the water.

- JNOV

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2002, 05:41:51 PM »
Youre not gonna get me with that PC mulitculti crap.  I was born in Croatia and lived there as a kid, I speak the language and like our food and culture. But I'm an American. I dont doubt for a second that a leftist like you is unable to understand that through your PC colered world.