The Slot 1943 - Friday 13 Sep

[Löwe]

No you didnt pull it, you just took it out of the fight.
The Allies squads are not stupid they'll figure out real quick how to exploit this. No biggie  just another day in the IJA.

[Squire]

Im not calling for this setup to be changed, Im just saying, down the road, we could have another setup perhaps and try a few things out with the 1943ish set. Thats all. For the future.

As for the Ki-44, ya ok, I admit, It climbs better. I looked up the data and was surprised at how well it did climb. It is still slower than most US Iron though (early Ki-44), and I really dont see it changing the balance too much. It really was not a "Solomons" fighter, but even if it was, it certainly doesnt fix the problem of facing F4Us and P-38s, both doing better than 400mph at best alt.

As for the P-47, it did see service in SW Pacific, whereas the P-51B never did. Btw I find it interesting nobody has mentioned the Mustang, it far and away outclasses every fighter in that current setup. It is untouachable after getting alt.

When they add the Ki-84 that will make "Phillipines 1944-5" setups better for the IJ to be sure. Early war is doable as well, but we need a torp bomber like B5N.

In any case, I will leave it here. It has been a very good discussion. Bottom line for me is, the CT is not MA, its not supposed to be 100 percent "fair", but it should be balanced to some degree, to make it workable, as long as some boundaries are observed. This "grey area" is often a hot topic yes Indeed.

Regards, and all.

p.s Lowe, if you recall, I asked for a setup with no P-47, P-51, or F6F, so dont look at me I didnt ground your N1K2. I never lobbied for 1944 US iron in there vs your A6M5s and Ki-61s. I dont want this taken out of context.

[jarbo]

well i havent seen the jug dominate....not to say that it didn't.  I just havent seen it.   I will look for it and make an assessment as to whether or not it is good for gameplay.   Again, i know not everyone is going to be happy with my decisions, and maybe i am wrong.  But i am willing to take suggestiosn from the CT community  , make my best evaluation, try something out..in an attempt to make it better...and if it truly doesn't work... I am man enough to admit it.  

There is a big learning curve to setups.   And if your unwilling to give new ideas a try, then your just being close-minded.  I am a firm believer in trying thing out rather than just assuming that I know whats best the first time I try something.  Maybe you should consider doing the same.

Jarbo
CT Staff

[Karnak]

Yay.  Another setup where we get to fly A6M5s and Ki-61s against massively superior Allied fighters like the F4U-1, P-47D-anything and P-51B.  Fighters that are so much faster that the pilot has to be an idiot to ever give a shot to the Japanese pilot.

I'm so happy I can't stand it.

[J_A_B]

Personally I wish we could see a PAC setup with F4F's and P-40E's versus A6M2's and Ki-61's. (TBM/SBD/D3A/A-20/Ki-67 also)  No F4U-1's, No N1K2's, none of that junk.

Historical?  Not completely.  But it would IMO be fun--and the Japanese would, probably for the first time ever, actually have the speed advantage.  The P-40E and Ki-61 in particular seem very closely matched.

J_A_B

[oboe]

Japanese pilots better get used to Allied controlling the fight with their speed, or they will be frustrated without end.   Though I like J_A_B's setup above...

A setup that should allow the Japanese to dominate historically would be Malaya, 1940.  Ki.43s and A6M2s against Hurricanes and Brewster Buffalos.    Think we'll ever see that in the CT?

[Miska]

Malaya would be a great idea.  I hope we see that soon.  Ok, with the NIK2 removed, I'll fly Japanese all week.  Need a wingman, 27th Sentai?  I need to work on my defensive ACM, anyway.

[-ammo-]

Originally posted by Miska
Malaya would be a great idea.  I hope we see that soon.  Ok, with the NIK2 removed, I'll fly Japanese all week.  Need a wingman, 27th Sentai?  I need to work on my defensive ACM, anyway.

You will be playing dodge ball.  keep your neck bent.

[Kweassa]

Times like this I think the CT needs a 'slot' system.

 People can fly whatever is provided in the initial set-up, but there might be a special "slot" with limited numbers(such as you would see in a mission) for people to join.

 Only these people will be able to fly certain aircraft - for instance, in 1942 ETO setup, with the 'slot-system' assigned to the Fw190A-5, the majority of LW pilots would be able to choose as far as up to the Bf109F-4, but some of the lucky people who got into the CT first gets a chance to join the slot and use the Fw190A-5.

 This could effectively shapen up the percentage and balance of fighter-types based on historical usage. The slot would be an arena setting, allowed up to maybe something like 5 slots..  a setting like "slot - Fw190A-5: 15%" would enable 15% of the total number of one country to use the specifed Fw190A-5. This would mean when the slot is full, the another player would have to wait.. if he really wants to fly the Fw190A-5. If some other player in the 190 is shot down, 1 slot would come open, and the next person who chooses the 190 will get to fly it.

 This is not a good system for the MA, but for the CT, where just the "plane set" itself is not enough, it'd be very useful. Want to limit the numbers of late war planes like the 262 or the F4U-4 in certain setups?? Assign a "slot" and input their percentage!

 

[Löwe]

Jarbo.

If you re-add the George, your just gonna get grief from somebody else. So your damned if you do, damned if you don't, you've already had to put up with my whine, why go through any more ?  Warloc, yes I think your setup was a good one, and I really hope to see it someday. The F6F would make a good addition to your setup, and NO George is needed.

[Soulyss]

My question would be if the allies actually advance up the chain, what planes would be available at the fields they took?  right now A1 has the USAAF planeset while a5 (the only other airfield the allies get to start with AFAIK) has the F4U-1.   If the allies move up the chain what planes would be enabled from captured fields?  If it's the full planeset I agree that would seem a bit excessive.  But at the get go it seems to me that the axis control the vast majority of the map.  So it seems that if you flip the situation and the allies were on the offensive and the aixs were down to the last couple fields, the allies would be running right into the N1K just like the the aixs are running right into the P-47 and P-51 now.  Might just be the luck of being on the "winning side" as the map is setup on reset.  Naturally this point of view is based on a couple asumptions, the biggest of which is that the allies would be denied the use of the P-47 and P-51 is you dirty axis types would only let us off Guadalcanal and A1.  


Sure some arguments could be made that the N1K doesn't compare to the P-47 et al.  But given the planeset I'm not sure what else the CM's can do about it.  

As for the other cases of CM's hamstringing the Axis I just don't see it myself.  In Europe the 262 should have been perked not much but enough to keep everyone from flying it all the time (I know that by and large wasn't the case but it could have happened).   The exclusion of the 190D did surprise me some but the axis still had competitive choices in speed with the 109G10 and the earlier models of 109's were competitive in other performance catagories.  I know from flying axis in the BoB CT setup that I perfer fighting the spit I in the 109E than the Hurricane so I don't really see that as a big knock against the axis either.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

So the Allies get what they want again. I just assume fly the A6Ms but how about fix the damn things. My God its just like WBs.

If you guys insists on early war setups how about get off your duffs and get the IJN/A some more airplanes. Lets get the A6M2 flying like it should if nothing else. This just goes to show that I am right and you guys are........opps never mind, Squire will yell at me again.

oboe I said the same thing about the Brewsters but they ignored it. YES the arena would stay Allied empty. My Brewster posts have had the same replys for four years....NONE!

[Karnak]

In my opinion the F4F and FM2 either turn much better than they should or the A6M2 and A6M5b turn much worse than they should.  As it is, it is nigh suicide for an A6M of any kind to turn with an F4F / FM2 and must use its marginally better speed and climb to BnZ the F4F / FM2.

Wingloading and powerloading of six manuverable fighters ranked best to worst:

Wingloading:

A6M2:
Empty: 15.34lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 22.00lbs/sq.ft.

A6M5a:
Empty: 18.18lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 26.38lbs/sq.ft.

Spitfire Mk Vb:
Empty: 20.93lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 27.48lbs/sq.ft.

F4F-4:
Empty: 22.25lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 30.67lbs/sq.ft.

FM2:
Empty: 20.95lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 31.81lbs/sq.ft.

Spitfire Mk XIV:
Empty: 27.27lbs/sq.ft.
Loaded: 34.61lbs/sq.ft.


Powerloading:

Spitfire Mk XIV:
Empty: 3.22lbs/hp.
Loaded: 4.07lbs/hp.

Spitfire Mk Vb:
Empty: 3.52lbs/hp.
Loaded: 4.62lbs/hp.

A6M5a:
Empty: 3.69lbs/hp.
Loaded: 5.35lbs/hp.

A6M2:
Empty: 3.90lbs/hp.
Loaded: 5.59lbs/hp.

FM2:
Empty: 4.04lbs/hp.
Loaded: 6.08lbs/hp.

F4F-4:
Empty: 4.82lbs/hp.
Laoded: 6.65lbs/hp.


Unless there is something funky going on with the F4Fs wings it should not be outturning A6Ms often. The F4F-4 should be about a match for the Spitfire Mk V, though the Mk V can probably sustain the turn longer, and the FM2 should probably be a bit worse than the Spitfire Mk Vb.  The A6M5b out turns the Spitfire Mk Vb.  I think the F4F / FM2 flight models are overly optimistic.  As it is, the F4F-4 is simply better than the A6M2.

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

The zeke is not much good unless you are at "Combat Speed" At this speed any Allied airplane with energy can climb, extend, or dive as we all know. It can turn once or twice with a zeke but should be shark bait after that. Notice I said AFTER that? The Zeke SHOULD be able to hold this combat speed with not much resistance, however once the zeke slows down it will not regain combat speed as fast as it should. Once in a turn or two with the Navy guys, the zeke is slow and slugish and will not turn, climb or even roll worth a #$it. Cmon guys fix it!!

Its been a while and I caint find the Combat Speed however, at slow combat speed an A6M2 has a 360 deg turn radius of 612ft.
At230mph it turns in a radius of 1,118 and is agile at both speeds!!!!!!! NOT IN AH!

[Sixpence]

Well, I was on all friday evening flying the IJN. We won the room(reset), so why are the axis pilots whining? I you are up at high altitude expecting to catch a p47, then you deserve to get your arse shot down. If you are capturing fields(the objective of the game), how can a p47 bother you? Let him come down and burn off his "E", then shoot his arse down. P47 dominate? Only if you play to it's strength. If you start porking his fields, he is going to have to come down and stop you or lose the game. The allies are in the same boat when they have to fly spits against the LW planes. But what I think is most important in this map is fleet management. We kept 2 assault fleets(4 battleships) and one CV group together to form a massive fleet. And it worked, we worked our way east before they could sink our ships, where one fleet wouldn't have got the job done. The navy plays a vital role in this map, use it wisely and you can win the room. Honestly, I see no reason to go above 12k in this room. That would give advantage to axis , no? Maybe I'm wrong, but like I said, IJN won the room friday night.