Author Topic: learning disabled (Read 947 times)

Kanth · « **Reply #30 on:** October 01, 2002, 12:46:36 PM »

If completing the test in a certain time frame is part of the test then I'd say nope. Everyone gets to be equal period, no one gets more or less than anyone else. That's competition. If the person is slow they shouldn't be competing in a time based trial. They need to find something that actually does fit them realistically and excel at it.

When they get out into the job market, people are not going to buy from them because they are trying hard. They are going to be buying from them because the product meets their needs.

*Giving* the learning disabled anything, imo is wrong, let them earn their way like anyone else. They are capable people and there is a wide variety of jobs open to people of all types of skills and speeds.

If completing the test has no time limit then we have no argument.

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Originally posted by Kieran

And Eagler, think a moment... why not allow someone who is making an effort to do his/her best more time on a test? Isn't this someone that is doing everything in his/her power to improve him/herself? Isn't this far preferable to someone standing on the corner with his/her hand out?

Thrawn · « **Reply #31 on:** October 01, 2002, 01:57:51 PM »

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Originally posted by Kanth
If completing the test in a certain time frame is part of the test then I'd say nope. Everyone gets to be equal period, no one gets more or less than anyone else. That's competition.

I thought the purpose of school was to learn, not compete.

PS: My brother-in-law has dysgraphia and is spelling is almost exactly like HT.

Kieran · « **Reply #32 on:** October 01, 2002, 02:41:04 PM »

Some of you are making the mistaken assumption SATs and ACTs perfectly predict ability and job performance. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Taking SATs and ACTs test how well you take tests based on math and written language, that's it.

If two people do the same job at the same qualitative level, but one person takes longer, who do I hire? If time is an issue, the faster one. What does that have to do with SATs? Not a darn thing.

How many of you out there seriously have careers where the chief components of your daily routine revolve around written communication and math? How many don't? Do you see what I mean yet?

mietla · « **Reply #33 on:** October 01, 2002, 02:41:25 PM »

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Originally posted by Thrawn

I thought the purpose of school was to learn, not compete.

You have to compete all your life, so you better learn it in school.

Kieran · « **Reply #34 on:** October 01, 2002, 02:52:36 PM »

As a software engineer, how much time are you spending in written communication? Now you might be able to argue logic in mathematical terms for the programming part (assuming you do program or look at others' programs), but how much do you rely on written communication?

Kanth · « **Reply #35 on:** October 01, 2002, 02:59:38 PM »

You are thinking of the after they get in.

We're talking about altering the basis on which it's decided that they do get in or not.

People aren't denied application out of principal. Colleges do not have unlimited resources and people usually aren't going there to learn just to cause they want to. They will eventually apply their knowledge to their careers.

Getting in to a good college is very competative.

learning once you are in, isn't.

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Originally posted by Thrawn

I thought the purpose of school was to learn, not compete.

PS: My brother-in-law has dysgraphia and is spelling is almost exactly like HT.

Maybe HT does have dysgraphia, I'd not know. Maybe HT is your brother, I'd not know that either

Nifty · « **Reply #36 on:** October 01, 2002, 03:25:11 PM »

Kieran, software engineering requires a great deal of written communication. Programming doesn't involve written communication, however, programming isn't all a software engineer does. There are numerous documents to write. I've got a due date on phase one coming up for a project at work. What's due? The Program Management Plan, the Software Requirements Specification and the Software Development plan. All three are written documents, and none are terribly technically involved. Especially the SRS. It has to be written so the customer can understand what exactly the software is to do. I won't actually start coding any of the software until after the design docs and testing plans are completed (more technically oriented, but still written communication.)

So, I'd say about 40-60% of my time is spent on written communication for a software project if I'm involved in the entire life cycle of the project. If I'm coding only, then of course there is very little written communication. However, as a software engineer, I'm usually responsible for more than just being a code monkey.

Kieran · « **Reply #37 on:** October 01, 2002, 03:33:32 PM »

Honestly, I don't know what a software engineer does, nor would I presume to say, hence my question. The point really is, how many careers out there depend on both written communication and math vs. how many that don't. If the SAT and ACT are the end-all and be-all for college entry, this should be reflected in our daily work life- clearly this is not the case.

Nifty · « **Reply #38 on:** October 01, 2002, 03:54:29 PM »

I agree with you, believe me. I just didn't want you using an incorrect case to make your point.

Also, just to give you a bit more fuel on your fire, here in Florida the schools are graded based on students' performance on the FCAT (Florida Comprehensive Achievement Test). Guess what this examination tests?

Math, Reading, and Writing. That's it. School funding is based significantly on this test. Good scores = more money (edit: more money in the form of bonus money, "A+ funds" is a term I've heard mentioned many times). Before vouchers in the state of Florida were ruled unconstitutional, if a school received an F grade for two years, I think 2 years, then parents could receive vouchers to send their kids elsewhere. (unconstitutional against our state constitution, not against the US Constitution. The Florida one has a provision that public dollars may NOT go to church institutions. A lot of vouchers were used for private Christian/Catholic schools.) So accountability for the schools, administration and teachers is based on 3-10 grade performance in math, reading and writing. The schools do a lot of pretesting with software (the companies that make the software LOVE the FCAT!) and they find out which kids need work in which areas. Very good stuff right? Yes and no. Yes in that it helps little Johnny get better at math, but no in the fact that little Johnny is on the FCAT math prep software during history class. Most teachers tell me they don't get to really "teach" until after the FCAT has concluded in March.

Well, at least the FCAT prepares the students for the SAT!

Eagler · « **Reply #39 on:** October 01, 2002, 04:10:03 PM »

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Originally posted by Nifty
Well, at least the FCAT prepares the students for the SAT!

which is a hellva lot more than they were getting before

Go JEB!

senna · « **Reply #40 on:** October 02, 2002, 02:56:34 AM »

But to what degree are the learning disabled. Some are disabled more than others.