Originally posted by Nash
And what I'm saying Toad is that Bush was consulting with his people to find ways of going to war *despite* what you or the congress had to say on the matter. Whether it's political suicide, legal or even possible - he made clear his intentions. Why check into it at all otherwise?
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I don't have any "real time" say in the matter. I have "election time" say in the matter.
Yes, he assessed the threat, decided on a course of action and explored all his options to pursue that course of action. So? What did you expect him to do? It's still the Congress that declares war, as I said.
Originally posted by Nash
As for you voting for Bush to get a republican sempreme court judge or because you dig the way he dances La Vida Loco matters not. You voted for him, he won, and like it or not, he's your guy.
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Really? I own him, or what? Or guilty by association for voting for him? What guilt? He's just doing his job: assessing the threat, proposing the solution. Exploring his options to implement his solution.
What am I guilty of? Helping elect a guy that takes his job seriously? Newsflash: I (and many others I suspect) have disagreed with some decisions made by several Presidents that I have voted for. In this particular case, I believe he made a
correct assessment of the threat. Good job there. However,
at this time I don't agree with the solution proposed by "my guy'. Here's another newsflash: If I had to decide right now in the current situation to vote for Bush or Gore to handle this (say we had some sort of Parliamentary "vote of confidence" thing where the citizens got to vote) I'd still take Bush over Gore. So maybe he is "my guy".. I still view him as the better of the two choices presented.
Originally posted by Nash
And I'm not quite sure what to make of your claim that the congress is abdicating their duty. Like Eagler says, didn't they indeed have debate and vote on the matter? Is giving the Prez war powers such a rare thing to do? You actually think they'd overstep the Prez and start sending troops to Iraq on their own, despite now what the *president* thinks?
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Do some research into the War Powers Resolution of 1973. To whit:
"(c) The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances,
are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces."
To me, before the Senate voted in favor, not a single one of the 3 conditions had been met.
There was no declaration of war.
There was no specific statutory authorization.
There was no national emergency created by an attack.
So, prior to the Senate vote, there was NO WAY Bush could have legally "introduced United States Armed Forces into hostilities".
Now, with the Senate vote, he's got his "specific statutory authorization" so it's all going to be legal.
Nonetheless, I think Congress took the chickenship way out. If the threat is serious enough to issue the specific statutory authorization, then just declare war. I think that'd get the attention of Saddam, Iraq and the rest of the world to a far greater degree than the specific statutory authorization. It might even remove the need to act at all. I'd give up if the US declared war against me and I'd give up before shots were fired and ask for "reconstruction aid".
Now, bottom line, it's not just Bush anymore. The Congress has signed on. So you'll have to include them in your diatribes in the future. Even the Democratic majority in the Senate is onboard now.
Originally posted by Nash
I'm having a helluhvah time trying to figure out where you really do stand on all of this.
Seems I've been pretty plain to me. See above for the rest of this clip:
Without specific UN authorization, the US has no business attacking Iraq with the goal of replacing its present government....
.....So, I think we have to wait for a UN consensus to replace Hussein by force.
