Author Topic: F4U-4 vs Spit XIV  (Read 1058 times)

Offline Innominate

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F4U-4 vs Spit XIV
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2002, 01:00:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B

Oh and ALF, my thought is people who want no special tags on perk planes don't actually want to do anything involving skill, they just want to cherry-pick undetected.   That is the ONLY possible motive for worrying about having a special ICON.


Cherry pick undetected?  I think you're missing the whole point.  Right now cherry picking is the only option in the f4u4, anything else and you're going to get raped.  The entire point of removing the tags is to allow people to be more agressive in them, without having too worry about having every red icon within 4000yards pointed at them.

If I wanted to cherry pick undetected, I'd say "Remove the icons completly".

The f4u4, spit14, and ta152 do NOT have performance that seriously outclasses the free planes.  They have small advantages, and overall perform somewhat better, but a co-e fight betweeen the free planes and any of those three is a fairly even match.  Why should a plane which has performance that isn't significiantly better than the p51d, not have the same anonymous tag?

What is the point of the perk system?
Is it supposed to be a reward for flying early war planes?  Or is it there to stop people from WANTING to fly the perk planes?  Right now because of the tags, there is no fun in flying at 25000feet to avoid being bounced, then having to look around for someone to fight, killing them, and then having every red icon in the area drop what thier doing to chase you.

Offline fdiron

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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2002, 04:21:07 PM »
The F4U-4s turning ability has saved me many times in the MA.  This is especially true on the 'pizza' map.  Usually when I find myself in trouble, I start turning.  If I still cant shake the bandit, I drop gear, drop flaps, and scissor like crazy.  As of yet, I've never had a plane NOT over-shoot me.  This includes Spit XIVs.  The big rudder on the F4U-4 allows snap-shots even when just 1 or 2 knts above stall speed.

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2002, 05:16:03 PM »
F4U-4 has low-speed turning ability? LOL
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline Innominate

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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2002, 05:21:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by -ammo-
F4U-4 has low-speed turning ability? LOL


Sure does, at least compared to the other fast planes.

Using it is suicide though.

Offline Soda

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F4U-4 vs Spit XIV
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2002, 05:41:58 PM »
The only perk planes worth it are the C-Hog and Me262.  The C-Hog because it's cheap and nobody cares if they throw away a couple of perks, and the Me262 because you can almost always escape from even the highest diving suicide dweeb.

The others are ok, and need to be controlled, but the fun factor just isn't there most of the time.  When you really need the perk plane performance is when on the defensive, where you usually end up with 20 guys chasing you instantly until a high P-51 or La7 dives in to get you turning (thus letting the rest catch up to you).  The times when perks usually show up is when they have a dominant position already and know that there is little risk even if they were flying C202's.

It's not that the Perk planes get any respect from the enemy, they simply attract a suicide mentality to HO any perk plane in sight.

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Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2002, 06:05:38 PM »
Innominate--

It's been said that there's two kinds of fighter pilots....

There are the guys who fly into combat expecting to shoot at people....

And there's the guys who fly into combat secretly knowing that they're going to be shot at.

You appear to fall into the second category.   Perk tags can't fix that.  Instead of worrying so much about the enemy, you need to let them worry about you.  Your entire problem with the perk tags amounts to the fact that they let the enemy recognize you and perhaps pick you out of the mob and attack you.

A lot of pilots biographies and memoirs talk about people like that, who flew around secretely hoping some ELSE would be attacked, doing their best to not attract attention to themselves.


For that kind of player, the F4U-1C is available as a perk plane.


J_A_B

Offline RightF00T

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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2002, 06:11:01 PM »
Yeah ammo..apparently our mechanic buys your elevators from Wal-Mart.

Offline fats

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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2002, 08:47:23 PM »
No, I didn't bother to read all the messages in this thread. Had an idea for icons though.

1: at far distance: range
2: closer: range, plane type
3: near: range, plane type and mark

example of icons:
1:
4.8K

2:
109
2.5K

3:
109K-4
800

The ranges for each icon type is up for debate of course.


// fats

Offline Innominate

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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2002, 09:09:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by J_A_B

You appear to fall into the second category.   Perk tags can't fix that.  Instead of worrying so much about the enemy, you need to let them worry about you.  Your entire problem with the perk tags amounts to the fact that they let the enemy recognize you and perhaps pick you out of the mob and attack you.


You're missing the point.  You seem to think I'm complaining that people shoot at me.  That's wrong.  I'm complaining that people will dive from 25000feet through a furball to stop cherry picking and kill a perk plane at low alt.  Pilots will waste thier entire ammo bin spraying from 1200yards out, just hoping for a lucky hit.  Have six enemies on your tail? No problem, just get at the perk plane before they get ya!

A free plane is a kill.
A perk plane is a trophy.

Most players will do ANYTHING to kill a perk plane.  Even if it means they're going to die also.  This applies to pilots who normally don't suicide.  I once had someone chase my f4u4 for over 50 miles, you think someone is going to chase an la7 that far?  I don't mind people trying to kill me, it would be stupid to expect otherwise, but with every dweeb within 6000yards focused on killing you without any thought to anything else, it's hard to get by.  And yes, these actions DO make many of these people easy kills, but when you have everyone who can get thier nose pointed at you doing this, the odds are far against you.

There is a good reason that the f4u4 and spit14 see so little usage, and it's not because of thier performance or cost.  There is a good reason the f4u-1c has better stats than the f4u4, and spit14, and it's not the performance.

Right now what we have are perk planes which are essentially worthless in the MA.  By making these planes the targets they are, any small performance advantage is crushed.   Perks are supposed to be a reward for  flying earlier war planes, currently the perked planes are only a punishment for flying something late war.

You can't take a perk fighter into(Cherry picking from above a fight is not getting into a fight) any serious fight and expect to have any chance of living.  Your only options are to hang out above the fight cherry picking, or hanging around where there is massive friendly superiority.  While I'm sure some people get off on climbing to 25000feet, and then picking off anyone who happens to be AFK, the vast majority of players would rather fly something else instead.

You once said(I think it was you, too lazy to check) that flying a low eny plane like the p51d cost perks, because you earned less.  What use are perks if they're no fun to use?  I know I'm not alone in having several thousand perks which I don't plan on using, simply because there is no fun in it.

The problem with the perk system is that for the majority of players, earning the perks is more fun than using them.

I invite you to fly even a half a dozen sorties in the f4u4 and then comment.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2002, 12:53:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Innominate


I invite you to fly even a half a dozen sorties in the f4u4 and then comment.


I've flown 8 sorties with the F4U-4 so far this tour. I've killed fighters, bombers, PTs and GVs with it. Never been hit. As of today, I stand at 29 kills, no losses.

Flying timid is a sure-fire way to get whacked. I fly it the same as any other fighter. Use good SA, keep it fast and you'll have no troubles you can't handle.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline fats

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« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2002, 01:13:32 AM »
--- Innominate: ---
 I once had someone chase my f4u4 for over 50 miles, you think someone is going to chase an la7 that far?
--- end ---

Sure. It was in another sim though with out perk rides but I would chase people all the time until I run out of gas or I would get them. That sim didn't use fuel multiplier either so it would be few hours at times.

Someone chasing you for ages might actually have had nothing to do with you being in a perk ride. He was just someone who didn't appriciate a runner for one reason or another.


// fats

Offline Voss

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F4U-4 vs Spit XIV
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2002, 03:30:35 AM »
Spit XIV

Offline Innominate

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« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2002, 06:20:32 AM »
I'm confused.

I keep hearing "keep your e up" etc.

Right now successfully flying an f4u4 means doing the following:

Always stay above the fight, and cherry pick.
OR
Avoid any situation where the odds aren't in your favor.  1 vs 1 fights, or situations where friendlies vastly outnumber the enemies.

I know it's easy to be successfull in these planes, but to avoid getting raped, you can't fly it like you would fly any free fighter.  Flying around looking for lone fighters, or hanging out 5000 feet above a fight isn't much fun for most people.

So does anyone have films of using the f4u4 in any situation where they're:
A. Not above everyone within icon range.
B. In any situation with many co-e enemies around.

A perk plane flown as if it were a free plane should have the same chance of success.  Maintaining an E advantage over everyone should make things easier, but it shouldn't be the requirement it is now.  Am I wrong?

Offline fdiron

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« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2002, 06:57:28 AM »
You have to put your perk-plane in harms way in order to get a few kills.

Offline Innominate

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« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2002, 07:17:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
You have to put your perk-plane in harms way in order to get a few kills.


The same is true of every plane, but they don't have to deal with being marked as trophies.