the MA is just training for the real thing........scenarios

[poopster]

I see that statement from time to time and smile.  Always in some sort of reply to us "dweebs" that haven't a clue....

I think that concept is what holds scenarios back here. If your at the point when ACM is your way though a situation, you shouldn't have got there in the first place. To call the MA practice for the big "show" is a cop out for getting beat...  

Let me preface that by stating I'm a gamer, I love the fight. I've found a squad that shares my passion for the "fight" and they were nice enough to let me play. I found the scenario concept wasn't what I wanted. But in a couple of years of flying them, I know how to go about it.

I have done share of scenarios in the S3's in WB flying for JG 2 for the last couple of years. My skills are average and these are just observations in my experience in scenarios there, compared to here. Also my thoughts on the CT.

What I see from the majority of participents in the TOD or the CT is that it IS just an extension of the MA.

Why ??

Simple, the "fight". Everyone fights here  The CT is a Main arena with fewer people and a limited plane set. I see no difference AT ALL between the two. Granted my time there was only sufficient to learn that. I did the WWII arena for years, it's boring. CT reminded me of flying empty arenas in WB. I've DONE that  

In the TOD, I see little different. The "fight" is the difference between here and there. The "fight" gets you and your squadies killed. There's a whole lot of fighting going on. For me ?? That's a good thing, but for the overall quest for the scenario, it's bad.

The premium on life is not instilled here. So while the Main is just practice, you take the wrong thing to the "game"  

Just as an example we would field maybe 16 pilots for an S3. 5 Frames a couple of sorties a frame. That's 160 sorties.. we'd lose maybe 3 a night ( sometimes worse  )

But that's 15 deaths in 160 sorties.............Average pilots with a few exceptions. Just average guys.

Hell I suck ( Just ask Ammo  ), survived 50 sorties in that time with 11 kills with a perfect S3 while killing 2. Don't see the motivation to live here.

How did us "average" hackers accomplish this ??????

Best glide ratio speed charts for your a/c that were broken down to distances that could be covered dependent on altitude....

Performance charts comparing climb, and top speeds with WEP and without with your competition broken down by altitude and fuel load...

Had the charts for every S3.

Two practices a week, versus fighters and bombers for the upcoming series.

Serious as a heartbeat...

That concept was held amongst ALL squads flying the S3. I don't see that here. "It's a fight" but in that, are you not just doing the MA with a different name ??

And by not putting the highest priority on life....

You "lose" what your trying to do. And subtract what it "could" be.

But it has to be instilled in "everyone" or it doesn't really wash..

There are acceptions here too. JG 2 for example  The 56th.. But taking the "whole" I see little value on life.

This is not a criticism, just an observation. Flying like that put me in a rubber room....

But if the MA is just practice, let's not go half way, step up.

Other things holding this place back are inflight radar, long icons and small maps. We had a squad Dar officer directing our flights. You didn't know "where" they were accept for radar reports.

Pucker factor increases 10 fold when there aren't red dots on your map....ever  Believe me. Set up a headon bomber attack in 190's WITHOUT those little red dots to line up on... Dive out of a fight and head home wounded WITHOUT those little red dots to stay away from... Wanna sweat ??

Talk to HT.  

Inflight Radar defeats ANY sense of where you want to be or strive to go. Period.

 ..I've yet to see a fighter sweep here out in front of a bomber group .......let alone a bait and switch.... disguised sweeps...etc etc

Personally, the S3 was intense to the point that it wasn't fun. It would take a day or two to get over dying. That over time wasn't fun for me.

Simmer ?? nah..been there...done that.

But if it floats your boat, start thinking about living instead of kills, and get HT to turn off that inflight radar..

...and let the sweat begin.

And if perchance you get beat in the Main ??

You got flat out beat.

Live with it


__________________
nopoop
The Blue Knights

[Shane]

worst case of corruption by the excessive quote police i've ever seen!

you're fired, buddy!

[poopster]

Thank God they haven't filled the open position for the "verbose" police

I'd be nursing bruised wrists...

nopoop

[Nash]

What I see from the majority of participents in the TOD or the CT is that it IS just an extension of the MA.

Both of those are great and have their place... but...

They aint scenarios (title of this thread).  The CT and scenarios are far different... no sense comparing those. The TODs (AH's S3s) and scenarios are more alike, but still... can't be compared.

That leaves the scenarios vs the MA ("MA just training for scenarios"). I don't see much wrong with someone figurin' that the MA suits them in that regard.

You talk about how ya used glide charts and such... well... same as here. I'll show you some pics after Midway that'll give you a pretty good idea of how seriously AH's scenarios are taken. Trust me, WBs holds no monopoly in that department... not even close. Yet, at the same time you seem to indicate that this level of seriousness burned you out from flying scenarios. Which way would you have it?

By the way... you should see the tools HTC has given the CMs, and the level of support and continued attention given to scenarios by them. Blows everything else outta the water in my not so humble opinion. Scenarios here are in great shape (400+ signed up for the next one)... One every three months... custom maps made *just* for the scenarios... this week they built and shipped off a new server to just house the events arena alone... Nah. Not only can't you compare the scenarios against the CT and TODs... you can't compare 'em to anything else going on anywhere else.

(Not to mention the CAP, KOTH and Snapshot events besides TODs and scenarios here... they rock. )

As to your specific concerns, there is no dot dar in scenarios, you get one life, and you choose to fight or blow through at your discretion. Yeah we even have vox comm from the twr. You wanna use glide charts? We have em. If ya wanna attach to a squad and just day trip ya can do that too.

And the point is - to each his own.

If some folks here consider scenarios as their...uhm... the bread and butter bought by their 15 bucks..... and if they use the MA to practise for them... who's gonna disagree with that? You wanna tellem it's a mistake to do so?

Scenarios... AH now owns 'em. You may not like scenarios... but it don't mean much more than the fact you don't like scenarios.

d'Oh! Poop... thanks to you I'm now on the lamb from the verbose police also...

[beet1e]

Hiya, Poop.

I am a rare bird in liking strategic objectives (war, capture) but preferring to do it in the MA. In WB, I almost never flew an S3.  All that buggering about  I remember having to fly a B25 - dropped 2 eggs on a refinery and shot two 262s, but that was it. Wait till the results show up the next day.  No thanks. I like captures/purpose, but I like everyone to be there.  I have moderately high hopes for the Mission Arena.

[Dowding (Work)]

After 2 and half years here, I find the MA boring and repetitive. Scenarios are what I play the game for - the MA IS a practice arena as far as I am concerned.

Nothin beats flying with my squaddies in CAP, TOD or a scenario. It simply is THE game, for me.

[funkedup]

I don't see that here.

You just need to join a better squad.  Lots of stuff like that here.

[Dowding (Work)]

It seems to me you are speaking with a complete ignorance of AH special events. A few examples:

Other things holding this place back are inflight radar, long icons and small maps. We had a squad Dar officer directing our flights. You didn't know "where" they were accept for radar reports.

Pucker factor increases 10 fold when there aren't red dots on your map....ever Believe me.

I've been many, many snapshots where radar was completely turned off. In fact the last one I flew was set-up this way.

But if it floats your boat, start thinking about living instead of kills, and get HT to turn off that inflight radar..

No offence, but this really does point to your ignorance on the matter. There have been plenty of TODs, where radar was non-existant. The last one, set around the 8th AF bombing of strategic targets in Germany is a good example.

The BoB historical scenario had no inflight radar at all.

..I've yet to see a fighter sweep here out in front of a bomber group .......let alone a bait and switch.... disguised sweeps...etc etc

I'm sorry to say, that after reading your post in its entirity I'm left wondering if you flew very many historical events at all . This last comment is a good example. Just about every bomber focussed event I've flown has seen the escorting fighters performing fighter sweeps or engaging fighters to mask bomber movements.

I designed and helped run the Big Week scenario last december. The tactics you describe were extensively used by the USAAF component. After all, what other tactics would you use?

[Samm]

If it weren't for scenarios I wouldn't have an account . So for me the MA just serves as a place to keep me from getting rusty between scens .

[Squire]

Most of the things you are referring too, as Dowding said, are already included in the Scens and the TODs. Eg, short icons are used (d3.0 for enemy), and radar is frequently either bar dar or turned off.

I agree that the casualty rates should be lower in some respects, but in time more squads get involved with a "fly to live" approach, rather than "a kill at any cost".

In closing I will say event flying beats the pants off MA any day in my book.

Regards.

[Ripsnort]

Agree!

[Shane]

Originally posted by poopster
Thank God they haven't filled the open position for the "verbose" police

I'd be nursing bruised wrists...

nopoop

that too...  also, the double post-police are looking for you... something about bait and switch tactics from another thread...

[Flossy]

Originally posted by poopster
Serious as a heartbeat...

Personally, the S3 was intense to the point that it wasn't fun. It would take a day or two to get over dying. That over time wasn't fun for me.

All I can say is Thank Goodness our Events aren't like that!  

I do enjoy the MA, and I also enjoy the more structured Special Events - both are equally enjoyable, and yes, to a certain extent I do use the MA for scenario practice - sometimes!  Like last night, when I flew a Zeke for a few flights and even managed to land on the carrier once, in preparation for Midway..... most of the time though, I do whatever I feel like doing!  All I want to do is have fun!