Author Topic: Are you skilled - or just gaming the game?  (Read 2086 times)

Offline Turbot

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Are you skilled - or just gaming the game?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2002, 03:44:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fatty
Cool, a conspiracy theory.


No just poor spawn point planning

Offline Midnight

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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2002, 04:05:59 PM »
No.. I am not talking about BFM (Basic Flight Maneuvers) or ACM (Air Combat Maneuvers). I am not talking about all of the other gamey things that go on in Aces High. I am talking specifically about doing gamey things done in a fight that either get you the victory, or allow you to escape from your attacker.

I am talking about gaming the game to get an advantage, where if you did it in real life, you would be really pushing it or it would just be impossible.

I didn't want to list examples, but these are the ones I know of.

1. Before take-off, press the TOGGLE ENGINE (E by default) three times. The entire engine startup delay is bypassed allowing instant full power.

I just found out aboout this one last week. IMO, this is gaming something that is already too gamey to begin with. We can already insta-spawn on any runway, we could at least be forced to start the damn engines before taking off.

2. While in flight, pilots turn off their engine(s) to force an attacking plane to over-shoot, and then restart them again as soon as the attacker goes by.

Or, when attacking, pilots cut their engine(s) to prevent overshooting their target and allowing their plane to settle into a nice firing position behind their target. Again, restarting the engine(s) as soon as they are stable.

This one I read about in another forum today. This is very gamey and should be disabled. No pilot in his right mind would shut down a perfectly good running engine in the middle of combat for fear the thing might not restart, or by not having the ability to restart it even if he wanted to.

From what I understand, this has been happening a lot in the MA, obviously without fear, because restarting the engine is just a button press away.


3. Saving your normal head position in an extreme position (giving you better view for firing guns) that would be impossible for a real pilot to do in the actual aircraft.

There are many players that have their head positions set as high and as far forward as possible, giving them an unrealistic view over the nose of their aircraft, and allowing them to get much better deflection shots in tighter turns.

It is my opinion that the head position should be forced back to the 'home' position as the G load increases. I think we can all agree that no one would be putting their face on the windshield when they are pulling 3 or 4 Gs.


4. Pulling and maintaining blackout condition G forces to maintain tighter turns and shake off attacking bandits.

I've seen this many times, where I am in the same aircraft as the plane I am attacking. We are both at the same speed. As I try to shoot the bandit, he pulls into a turn to avoid my shot. As I pull into the same turn, my blackout window starts to close. Because the bandit is in the same aircraft, I know that he is also nearing blackout, however he continues to turn tighter. At this point I know he must be blacked out. I am seeing through a pin hole, so he must be in total black, yet he continues to pull the same Gs.

Even in real life, that was probably done a lot, but once blacked out, the plane would ease into a straight line of flight, rather than the blacked out pilot being able to maintain the high G load.


5. Stick Stirring. Making your appear to be flip-flopping all over the place. Commonly seen when getting close to a firing position.

Honestly, I don't know exactly what this entails because I always thought that the 'don't move your controls so rapdily message' was supposed to pop up to stop this. It could be legitimate BFM, but the AH server  screws it all up and makes the plane look like its flipping backwards or warping sideways.

6. Spawn camping in GVs

If you are doing this, you really are showing diminished skills. How much fun and skill can there actually be in shooting planes or GVs that just appeared right there in front of you? Shooting them so fast, they don't even have a moment to get the engine started?

7. Vulching

This is a mainstay for some. Admittedly, many planes were shot down (or destroyed) while on the runway or just taking off / landing. in AH, cannon armed planes are better to vulch with because the probability of a pilot kill is greatly increased, so they can vulch while the target is still sitting. Planes armed with MGs have to wait until the target is going faster than 100MPH, so they get a kill and not end up just blowing off a wing and letting the player go back to tower with a successful landing.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2002, 04:23:04 PM by Midnight »

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2002, 04:10:08 PM »
Poor spawn point planning?

When are you dolts going to realise that we (the AKs) built this map for only OUR benefit?

Just learn to accept it or build your own map for your own benefit!
-SW

Offline Shiva

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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2002, 04:18:28 PM »
It's not the wierdly-placed spawn points that force us to drive up/down cliffs we object to, AKSwulfe, it's the spawn points that are tagged 'AK-only'...   You know -- the ones right next to the towns and just behind the runway aircraft spawn points.    :D

Offline HFMudd

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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2002, 04:47:36 PM »
Seems like the "Engine Cheats" could be prevented simply AH taking a page from the (gak!) WWIIOnline book and have engines turn over for a more or less random length of time until they catch.  So long as the length of time does not exceed 3 or 4 seconds I wouldn't think it would effect normal gameplay other than making upping from a vulched field an even worse idea.

Offline gatso

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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2002, 04:48:29 PM »
If your talking specifically about rank, there is no way in hell you can get a top 10 rank without at least very good planning. Some items require a bit of gaming but most DO require at least a bit of skill.

I am currently sitting at #1, I've been there for a week or so and yes you have to fly differently to maintain that rank. Does it reduce the fun? Maybe for some people, it stops you doing some things and makes you think a lot more than normal but I've enjoyed the last 2 weeks as much as any I've had in AH.

BTW I strongly suspect that Cuckoo will overtake me for the #1 spot in the next few days and nothing I can do is going to stop that, not because he games more than anyone else but because he is a damn good stick.

Gatso

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2002, 04:50:40 PM »
Yup, someone kicked Midnights butt :D

I don't see how engine blipping is any worse than throttling back. I have a CH throttle, and RPM mapped to my twisty stick throttle. So I can chop all back quicker than your average punter with a crap joystick. Engine blipping is an easier way for them to chop the throttle isn't it?

Someone from the 412th talking about gaming the game? Those ack running gang banging alt monkeys who won't fight co-alt one on one?

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah right.

Offline Furious

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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2002, 05:01:35 PM »
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4. Pulling and maintaining blackout condition G forces to maintain tighter turns and shake off attacking bandits.

You do understand the difference between the loss of vision due to excessive G and GLOC, right?


F.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2002, 05:02:39 PM »
wow ,thanks for all the real good tips midnight, i can use all the help i can get
44MAG

Offline Regurge

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Re: Midnights "gaming" examples
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2002, 07:03:17 PM »
1. Engine start sequence lasts about 10 seconds. I don't see how getting in the air 10 sec sooner will get you any extra kills.

2. I just tested this offline. Killing your engine gives you exactly the same glide rate as leaving it at idle. So killing it in flight won't slow you any faster than idle throttle.

3. Never been in anything pulling 4+G so I dunno how realisticit is. There are some guys here who have done it and can tell ya. It really doesn' bother me much either way. Planes with historically goodview over the nose (p38, f6f) also have it here.

4. Vision loss occurs before loss of conciousness. Pilots can and did fly while blacked out visually.

5. Its the fact we're all playing over the net. Go offline and fly around in chase view mode. Do whatever you want with the stick, the planes motion is always smooth and predictable. If online play looked like that, there wouldnt be any claims of stick-stirring.

6. Spawn camping is just as realistic as endless respawning. If you got 1 you gotta have the other. And if you're trying to take a v-field in a panzer its way more effective to spawncamp than to spend half your ammo killing the vh(which you cant do anyway cause the endless respawers will get u).

7. Theoretically mgs should be more likely to get a pilot kill. More rounds in the air, and every one can kill him. Cannons do get the advantage that near-miss ground strikes will still cause explosive damage. But what's your point here anyway? That using cannons is gaming the game?

Offline akak

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« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2002, 07:18:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight


7. Vulching

This is a mainstay for some. Admittedly, many planes were shot down (or destroyed) while on the runway or just taking off / landing. in AH, cannon armed planes are better to vulch with because the probability of a pilot kill is greatly increased, so they can vulch while the target is still sitting. Planes armed with MGs have to wait until the target is going faster than 100MPH, so they get a kill and not end up just blowing off a wing and letting the player go back to tower with a successful landing.



Vulching isn't gaming the game, it's an art form and a real tactic that was employed.  If you recall the fighter sweeps done before the bombers went to target, the fighters would sweep the enemy fields in hopes of catching the planes still on the ground.  It's called field supression for a reason.

As for adjusting the views, so friggin' what?  Does it give the pilot an unfair advantage in combat?  Nope.  I've got my gunsight raised so my shots are at eye level, and yes it does allow me to see over the nose of the P-38 but it doesn't give me any sort of advantage over the other player, only my flying gives me that advantage.

Turning off the engine in flight?  I think it's more of a llama move than gaming the game.  I've seen guys like hblair do it in the MA.  When I've fought hblair in the MA and he's done it, it didn't give him the advantage nor force me to overshoot because there are recognizable signs that let you avoid it if you pay attention.


Ack-Ack

Offline OIO

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« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2002, 07:33:24 PM »
cutting off engines... gamey yes. and dumb. you lose drag and in single-engine planes you can get your attitude all fediddleed up because the engine torque stops working (except in n1k, no effect noticable hahahahah).

blackscreen high-g turning... super gamey. I agree, the pilot should cease to have control of the plane when totally blacked out.

GV field camping..not gamey. If they drove there, more power to them.

other gamey tricks ive seen:

Stick stirring... many 190's know they can spin on their noses 3 times and then pull hard to any side..to the other player this plane will keep spinning half a spin more and bewm, the 190 suddenly turns on its belly at 7g's.

Purpose stalling: A masterpiece. Players with a con in their 6 will try the good ol' TOP DWEEB manouver ... "im letting him get closer and ill hit the brakes.." cut throttle, rudder full side and pull as hard as they can and make their plane stall and spin.  Once they spin they use the autopilot mode to bring plane out of spin (if nose down) or regain control with much-practiced skills and dive away or spray cannon at the other player.

Damage model : Particular to Zero and La7s. They will "play dead" when their planes are burning and spewing black and grey clouds then when the attacker zooms up or turns their still-intact plane (that will fly perfectly until they run out of their leaking gas) comes back and shoots them. Funny thing is, its impossible to know if they dead or not after you pumped 200 rnds of quad 50 cal and 50 rnds of 20mm into their tulips at d120. NUTS!

Bombers: Overlapping buff formations. I saw 3 players with 9 buffs fliying "inside"each other. Lag issues and other nuances and you get a buff that eats 3X the damage (you seem to spread damage over all 3 buffs as they warp back and forth) and you end up facing 3X amount of guns. Killshooter didnt seem to affect them either.

Killshooter abuse: Some players with cannon planes purposely fly in between you and your d200 smoking, wingless, slow, on the deck target and pump cannon till he blows to steal kills. You killshoot yourself many times, giving him more chances to get the kill. "shouldve killed him faster" comes reply in white (C-Hog/N1k replying to P-40B) *sigh*

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2002, 07:56:12 PM »
#2 is stupid.  No smart gamer whould chop the throttle to induce drag because it also feathers the prop.  Better just to haul back on the throttle.


eskimo

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2002, 08:14:10 PM »
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3. Never been in anything pulling 4+G so I dunno how realisticit is. There are some guys here who have done it and can tell ya. It really doesn' bother me much either way. Planes with historically goodview over the nose (p38, f6f) also have it here.


I've pulled over 4 G's, can tell ya that you don't exactly move/keep yer head forward in a such a motion. 4 G ain't all that much but you definatly won't have your head pressed forward, I think it would even be pretty damn hard to aim.

Ps. Not gaming the game, ever, I hate "cheating" and gaming the game things, didn't even cheat when I played Doom back in the good old days.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Midnight

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« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2002, 08:24:05 PM »
Actually, no I wasn't beat by this move in any recent history. Probably in the past though. I'm bringing it up because I have been hearing a lot about it lately.

I'm not whining about this stuff either, I'm just wondering how many people use these tricks to their advantage on a regular basis so that they can get more kills.

One thing I remember was back in AW, people would turn off their cockpit art so they could see all around with no obstructions. That was really gaming the game.

My numbers 2 and 3 are really the only ones that I was interested in. The rest I added just for conversation.

Regurge, you are wrong about glide rates and induced drag. HT can explain it fully to you, but props in AH generate more drag with the engine off than with te engine running at idle.

Also, I have pulled +5.5 Gs in a dogfight. Trying to do it leaning forward over the dashboard would have been impossible.

Vulcan, how can we be ack runners and alt-monkeys at the same time? Did someone put AAA at 20K and not tell me? And why should I fight 1-v-1 CO E? I'm not good at it, and it always turns into a turn fight, which I am even worse at.

Anyway, I just want to know who 'games the game'. My guess is that the ones of you answering with the smart-ass comments do it the most.