Author Topic: New gun owner (Read 1234 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 19, 2002, 10:04:03 AM »

monk... cz's are fine firearms. I simply don't feel that most (new gun)people should bother with an autoloader. If a person were to be dilegent about geting familiar with the gun then I would recomend one in .40 cal and.... I would buy the .22 conversion kit for cheap practice.

shotguns... any of you guys ever even shoot a shotgun? ever cut anything "in half" with one? They don't cut anything in half and they don't make 6" holes in stuff like on TV. The are clumsy and hard to weild in a house.. My mini 14 is more handy than a 18' mossberg pump. you don't want to anounce your presence by a foot or so of barrel preceding you.

A lot of you guys seem to be putting form over function here.

Another plus for the 357 and 44 mags is.... versatility.. if you like to target shoot or plink.. you don't have to chase the brass.. they are simple to reload for and cheaper and easier to reload than autos.... plinking is the best tho... you should see the sour, disapointed looks on the faces of the gee wizz autoloader guys faces when they try to hit a five gallon bucket at 1 or 2 hundred yards with one. The wheelgun guys are having fun and the auto guys are left out.... looking on the ground for brass...

Anything will work tho if you are diligent. I don't feel the least vulnerable with a single action wheelgun in 357.. 44 or 45. What they did then they still can do now... It is a little known fact that in all competion... the fastest gun from the holster to the first shot is still a single action wheelgun and..... No autoloader can get off 6 shots as fast as a double action wheelgun... The differences are slight but it is true.
lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 19, 2002, 10:05:46 AM »

capt apathy... the extra two shots saved him a huge lawsuit and a lot of trouble.
lazs

capt. apathy · « **Reply #47 on:** October 19, 2002, 10:26:13 AM »

once the guy was down (unless he still had his gun in his hand, or you put it there afterwards) those extra couple shots would probably be described as 'execution style' by your prosecuting attny. once the guy is down and un-armed it goes from deffence to murder. although it does simplify the whole witness thing as yours would be the only story heard.

on the other hand if the guy wheren't alone I'd say the extra couple shots would be justified so he doesn't get back up while you are dealing with his freind

eskimo2 · « **Reply #48 on:** October 19, 2002, 10:34:09 AM »

For shooting, .22s are the way to go. Dirt cheap guns and ammo. They also won't damage your ears, retinas etc. from lots of shooting.

BTW, I keep all of my firearms disassembled and the firing mechs. well hidden. Less risk of kids or theives getting into trouble.

For home defence, I have a giant pepper spray can. The good thing about these is that if you mistakenly use it on a loved one, well,... they live.

eskimo

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #49 on:** October 19, 2002, 10:41:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
once the guy was down (unless he still had his gun in his hand, or you put it there afterwards) those extra couple shots would probably be described as 'execution style' by your prosecuting attny. once the guy is down and un-armed it goes from deffence to murder. although it does simplify the whole witness thing as yours would be the only story heard.

on the other hand if the guy wheren't alone I'd say the extra couple shots would be justified so he doesn't get back up while you are dealing with his freind

Remember the Vancouver couple that had an intruder? The husband had gotten his gun and said the intruder was going for his wife when he pumped 15 rounds into his back? He was never charged... and his wife was never touched.

AKDejaVu

capt. apathy · « **Reply #50 on:** October 19, 2002, 12:27:59 PM »

ya, but if I remember right they where all fired before the guy hit the ground.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #51 on:** October 19, 2002, 12:33:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by capt. apathy
ya, but if I remember right they where all fired before the guy hit the ground.

No they weren't... they were just all fired. The investigation pretty much concluded that the act of continually squeezing the trigger until all of the ammo is gone can be just as... um... "spontaneous" with 2 rounds as it is with 15. That is... there isn't really a point where pre-meditation enters the picture in certain circumstances.

Now, if someone were to stop firing, walk over to a body and then pump a couple of reassurance rounds in... another story.

AKDejaVu

TPIguy · « **Reply #52 on:** October 19, 2002, 01:34:48 PM »

Quote

I'd recomend a .357 (ruger is my fav here) with a 4" barrel for home defense and target range stuff. You can load .38 bullets in it if recoil is something you'd like to avoid or magnum if armor is something you'd like to penetrate.

I'm gonna agree here. I have a 6" stainless colt king cobra. Its very accurate for a pistol and easy to shoot considering the power of the round. With a .357 and some good hollowpoints one shot will kill damn near any intruder.

Its alot of fun at the range, but ammo is expensive.

My other pistol is a S&W sigma .40. Its far less accurate, less powerful, less reliable and has more recoil . Most people prefer autos. I however prefer a wheelgun. Like some suggested try renting guns (or go shooting w/ a buddy.) Try some different ones out and get what you are most compfortable with.

For me, if I ever DO need to defend myself, you can bet I'll grab my .357 before anything else.

ra · « **Reply #53 on:** October 19, 2002, 03:05:36 PM »

My take on home defense weapons:

handguns...good because they can leave you with one or both hands free while you investigate the situation. Not good for much except home defense. Expensive.

rifles...not too good for home defense, unless you have a lot of land. Good for huniting. Can be expensive.

shotguns...pretty good all around, for home defense, hunting, and target clays. Cheap, versatile. Unlikely to hurt a far away innocent bystander if you are using lighter loads.

I own one of each, if I had to keep only one it would be the shotgun. If you are mainly interested in home defense I would recommend a cheap 12 guage Mossberg pump, as others have. Shoot some target clays for fun and to stay familiar with the gun. Take the hunting plug out at home so it can hold more shells.

ra

Dago · « **Reply #54 on:** October 19, 2002, 05:11:41 PM »

Just buy a fragmentation grenade off the black market and let the burglars beware!

dago

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #55 on:** October 20, 2002, 06:28:05 PM »

Hiya Mos. =)

For home defense and a general plinker, you cant go wrong with a 1911. Im a CCW permit holder and even if I do walk out of the house with a gun, which I almost never do for some reason anymore, it would be a 1911.

As others have mentioned, some rounds have you running the risk of shooting your neighbors as well as the intruder.

For self defense I would urge you away from anything chambered in 9mm... stongly. The 9mm is like a nail - it will go through just about anything, but wont cause much damage. In other words, you shoot a guy from 15 feet, hes going to keep coming at you and that round you just fired went through your wall, through your neighbors wall, and into the family dog.

If the 9mm is a nail, the 45 ACP is the hammer. Its slow and heavy. Not much penitrating power, but whatever you hit with it isnt getting up. (In addition to that, the wide muzzle opening is intimidating enough that you may not have to shoot... no damnit, look in a mirror, dont point the fediddleing thing at yourself!)

Colts are fine examples dispite the rumers, Springfields are excellent, Kimbers are the best "out of box" and since I dont see any mention of higher end custom 1911's, Ill skip the Wilson/Les Baer argument.

Gman · « **Reply #56 on:** October 20, 2002, 09:26:48 PM »

My shop is the Canadian distributor for Kimber, and I shoot a Custom CDP II as my IDPA gun, and you'll fine no finer bang for your buck anywhere IMO if you're looking for a .45 as your defensive system.

I strongly recommend taking a weekend course on home defence, which will teach you not only the proper use of a firearm in an indoor environment, but also teach you how to set up your house and have fall back/lockdown positions with phones in the right places, etc.

Also, caliber IMO is not as big an issue as the type of cartridge you use. Full metal jacket is a major no no, be sure you use a round specifically made for defence purposes (ie kill people, not put holes in paper.)

Unlike what many are saying here, 9mm with 147 gr hydrashocks or other similar rounds don't overpenetrate at all, in fact they often penetrate even less than a similar 230 gr .45 hollowpoint/frag round. .45 is a lot of gun for a newbie, 9mm is easier to shoot, usually smaller, cheaper on ammo, and will suit your purpose just fine, IF you use the correct ammunition for the purpose.

I just took a course from SigArms last weekend on advanced tactical pistol, Tim Connell who trains the Air Marshalls as well as "other" military units in the art of pistelro was up for a week or so, and he said unofficially that the Air Marshalls are using Sig's with the .357 Sig cartridge, which is virtually the same as any 9 in caliber and weight, only going about 400 fps faster. They obviously have the ammunition/penetration situation well in hand there, being on aircraft and all, so don't worry about a 9mm going through your house and into your neighbours. It can happen with any caliber, if full metal jacket or lead swc type ammo is used.

Best advice that I've read here and can give is to seek the help of a local professional, and not be afraid of trying out what he suggests.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #57 on:** October 20, 2002, 11:01:35 PM »

Get a pump action shotgun. The "shuck-shuck" of putting a shell in the chamber, and a calm, low question, "What chyall doin' in my house?" will bring 95% of intruders to to thier knees, quivering in wet pants. The shells are for the other 5%;)

Leslie · « **Reply #58 on:** October 21, 2002, 02:50:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Get a pump action shotgun. The "shuck-shuck" of putting a shell in the chamber, and a calm, low question, "What chyall doin' in my house?" will bring 95% of intruders to to thier knees, quivering in wet pants. The shells are for the other 5%;)

That's a very distinctive sound alright!!! Think how great an alarm system sound that would be...LOL, along with the "What chyall doin' in my house?"

Les

Leslie · « **Reply #59 on:** October 21, 2002, 02:56:16 AM »

About the Charter Arms Bulldog .44. I was told Charter Arms didn't make it any more, and had gone out of business. Anyone have any info on that?

Les