Well's Somthings not right in mudsville.

[eskimo]

After spending a few minutes trying to figure out what you guys are talking about, I think that I finally have a clue how my first grade students must feel while they are learning to read.

eskimo

[niklas]

in a book, i found a typical polare for a laminar wing. According to the book the advantage of low drag disappears complety in a situation of high AoA. Is this right?
 

[wells]

Yep Niklas, that would be true.  Because a laminar flow wing has it's thickest point further back along the chord length, it also has a steeper angle to the trailing edge, which causes separation (drag) sooner (lower angle of attack) than on a more conventional wing.  Usually, when separation starts at the trailing edge, the separation point creeps forward as angle of attack is increased.  When the separation point is ahead of the thickest part of the wing, the wing stalls completely.  This also happens quicker with a laminar flow wing because the thickest part is closer to the trailing edge.  This is why laminar flow wings don't give much stall warning and any changes in angle of attack should be made slowly and smoothly (flying technique).

[Zigrat]

yes thats what they are showing there, the Cw(x axis) they have listed is the section drag coefficient of the airfoil, and the Ca(Y axis) is the lift coefficient. Its easier to picture the graph if you flip it 90 degreees to the left IMHO. Then you see that at low AOA (positive or negative) the section drag is much lower but by the time you get to typical values of +- .4 values for the lift coefficient the benefit disappears and the wing actually produces more drag. So what does it mean? Basically, you should keep the mustang fast and not pull back on the stick much, because its wing is designed for cruise at high speeds with low wing loadings  

[Badger]

This thread scares me.  

I hate it when you put a whole bunch of really smart people together and they communicate in an challenging, yet open and non threatening manner.

I was getting used to the insecure types who love to maintain the status quo and can't see anything except the inside walls of their respective boxes.

I just hope when you're all done, someone will put it into layman's terms for us country boys.  

<Salute> to all of you.......

[Vermillion]

 

I just hope when you're all done, someone will put it into layman's terms for us country boys

Plane go fast and fly?  

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"

[Rude]

All I know in RL is how to fly em....get out of the classroom and take a spin at your nearest cessna dealer You might enjoy it

Rude Out!

[Rude]

All I know in RL is how to fly em....get out of the classroom and take a spin at your nearest cessna dealer, you might enjoy it

Rude Out!

[-lazs-]

So how much too slow, on average, are the turn rates in AH?
lazs

[Jochen]

I would guess about as much as WB turn rates are too fast.

------------------
jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen'  Warbirds

Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!

Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes

[-lazs-]

so joc... 20% on average?   Except of course the LW planes which are actually a little fast in AH and the Hog which is about 30% slow?  
lazs

[funked]

Prove it Lazs...

[-lazs-]

funked, u spent a lot of time convincing me that WB was right... Now AH is right... You showed yourself that AH's fastest turners are off by 10% or more from VVS stuff and you show WB 10-30% below that.  I know you know that a Corsair should turn 30% better than an A (LOL) 8 so that one is way off.  All together.... AH is 30-50% slower than WB.

Hey, no big deal if they get comparitive (make everyone off the same %) rates right except that a slower turn rate makes for a slower game and less acm... It gets boring quicker and attracts fewer new players.   I like allmost every other aspect of AH's flight model better tho.   The endless "hartman stomps" are out.... The very frustrating Warp rolls are all but eliminated.   Fix the comparitive turn rates and it would be a step in the right direction tho.
lazs

[niklas]

lazs

Wasnīt it a A5 that was outturned in a flight test by a f4u, where the f4u gained one in 3 turns? And didnīt you mentioned that the P51 was only a bit worse in the circle time compared to the f4u?

Now:
The P51 has a laminar wing. It has a lot of drag in a situation of high AoA. The laminar wing doesnīt allow as high maximum AoA like a usual fighter airfoil (naca230, fw190). max AoA of a laminar wing is highly dependent on the quality surface of a wing. You can read in the naca829 report that the surface of wing of the P51 was changed, improved.

consider high drag in a high AoA situation and less max. possible AoA and you know why the P51 could NOT easily outturn a fw190. And if your test report tells you something different, well than i think something was wrong with the FW. And NEVER believe in tests which compares aircrafts. Find a number for the minimum circle time of a Fu4. That would be interesting!

[funked]

Lazs, I never did any analysis of turn rates or radius in WB.  I have no idea what you are talking about.

". I know you know that a Corsair should turn 30% better than an A (LOL) 8 so that one is way off."

Don't know that at all.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 06-10-2000).]