Author Topic: Taxes  (Read 452 times)

Offline AKDejaVu

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Taxes
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2002, 07:41:00 AM »
So Curval...

If you don't pay your property taxes in Bermuda, you get your property seized.  Somehow, this is magically OK in Bermuda, but the result of a tyranical organization in the U.S.

Gotcha.

One more time....

You are quite full of it.

Taxes are Taxes no matter where you live.  EVERY government enforces tax payment quite strictly.  Siezure of property is one way they get their money back in Bermuda and in the United States.  Someone not being able to afford their taxes is considered in the U.S. and is not a reason for sending someone to jail.

Now... if someone were to commit fraud to avoid paying taxes, then they have committed a crime.  That is when jail time will come into the picture.  It still has to be shown to be criminal fraud and the person still goes before a trial by jury.  The IRS does not simply wave its wand and presto.. you're in Jail.

AKDejaVu

Offline Curval

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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2002, 07:58:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKDejaVu
So Curval...

If you don't pay your property taxes in Bermuda, you get your property seized.  Somehow, this is magically OK in Bermuda, but the result of a tyranical organization in the U.S.

Gotcha.

One more time....

You are quite full of it.

Taxes are Taxes no matter where you live.  EVERY government enforces tax payment quite strictly.  Siezure of property is one way they get their money back in Bermuda and in the United States.  Someone not being able to afford their taxes is considered in the U.S. and is not a reason for sending someone to jail.

Now... if someone were to commit fraud to avoid paying taxes, then they have committed a crime.  That is when jail time will come into the picture.  It still has to be shown to be criminal fraud and the person still goes before a trial by jury.  The IRS does not simply wave its wand and presto.. you're in Jail.

AKDejaVu


awwww have I offended you by criticising the IRS?  Next April I willing will be anxiously watching your posts to see the joy that you must feel when giving all that money to Uncle Sam.

You are correct when it comes to the seizure of property and as I said in my last post it is probably the same in the US.  What IS different is that I don't pay INCOME TAXES...you do.  I would guess that 2 out of every five days you are working is essentially to pay the IRS.  Failure to remit may very well land you in jail.  This is a fact.

Your also correct in saying that there is no majic wand being waved by the IRS to put someone in jail.  It is a long drawn out process...enough to get many offenders (or non-offenders who are attempting to justify their position) jumping from their office windows due to the stress.  Calculations of back-taxes, interest and penalties can take some time, and don't forget the $300/hour tax lawyer who, in an effort to defend someone, will gladly delay the process as much as possible in order to fatten up his/her billing.

I am full of it?  I think YOU are full of it.  Do you really feel all warm and fuzzy towards the IRS, or is this personal for some reason?
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Offline Fatty

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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2002, 08:08:41 AM »
Tyco was a low blow, so would be Global Crossing.  You notice our Enron guys are going to jail.

The point, however, is the tax burden comparison between a very small island with a strong tourism industry and favorable to international businesses, and any large country with a fully integrated economy.  Heck, look at anyone north or across the atlantic from us and they'll tell you we're cheap bastards that pay no taxes.

The reason you hear so much griping about the IRS is simply because people do not like taxes (christ they keep voting for them though).  It doesn't matter whether you like them or not though, they were voted in and you've got to pay them.  Yeah, I hate the IRS, but I'm glad it's at least making (most) everyone else pay too.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2002, 08:23:07 AM by Fatty »

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2002, 08:19:30 AM »
Quote
this would be valid only if the 'conservatives' were not as free spending as the 'left'.
a green party budget would probably spend much less than one written by bush.
vote libertarian or anarchist.
'crimes' against the IRS are the on criminal charge in which the burden of proof is on the accused, so the Gov't can send just about any waiter, cab driver or nude dancer to jail on a whim (tips).
i'd rather have them send the nude dancer 'round to my place


ofcourse, but politics arent about issues they are about image. It was the republicans that brought the issue of "irs abuse" up in the media. Everyone hates the irs so it was an easy issue to get support for. However the irs has not really changed. It has softened around the edges and now spin the "Service" part.

The irs doesnt have the authority to go out and grab folks at random and lock them up. They never did. They dont come to you without proof. They examine irregularities in the documents you submit to them. If the see issues that may lead them to believe you are de-frauding the government  they investigate it. Once they have evidence to support their cause they go after you.

If you are right they dont. They settle most of the time for less then they are owed. The irs dont set up road blocks outside of a restraunt demanding waiters provided an accounting of their tips. But when these people submit a tax return expecting a rebate based on false information they are attempting to commit fraud.

Show me a waiter who honestly reports his income?

If you want the tax laws changed then vote for the people who will change them. Dont get mad at the tax man when he does his job enforcing the law.

I hate taxes. I hate that the government confiscates my money for things I care nothing about.

But I understand that if I lie or cheat theres a consequence. Its like blaming the policeman because you got caught speeding.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2002, 08:38:43 AM by Wotan »

Offline Curval

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« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2002, 08:21:38 AM »
Mr. Kozlowski, the Tyco CEO may well be sharing a cell with the Enron guys.

This post came about because deja took at quote of mine and turned it into a cheerleading post about how great the IRS is for some reason.

I had initially posted my quote from the gun thread which resulted from alot of guys pumping their fists against their chests and proclaiming their "freedom" to own guns.  I merely brought up the IRS to show that this "freedom" is somewhat stained by the fact that you are not free to conduct your business without bowing down and "paying the piper" with respect to taxes...to one of the most omnipotent organisation in the entire world.  

The irony was just too thick to pass up.
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Offline Nifty

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« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2002, 08:30:04 AM »
where is the post this originated from?
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2002, 08:56:04 AM »
The post came from the Gun owner/non-gun owners thread.  I started this one because the original statement had ZERO to do with that thread.

Its seems that Curval and his friends sit around all day trying to think of ways that Bermuda is better than the U.S.

Curval,

Its not that you hurt my feelings, its that you are trying to imply that somehow the U.S. tax agency is somehow more evil than what you currently deal with and that somehow impares our freedom whereas Bermuda has no such issues.

You really can't argue the point, so you have to come up with some kind of "red tape international trade" comments to justify your bashing of the IRS.  Once again... the two have nothing to do with each other.

The truth is, Bermuda is nothing but a loophole on the Eastern seaboard.  That's fine because your country seems perfectly content to sit back and make money on that.  It just seems that a country with no industry and no agriculture is sitting back and criticizing the very source of their economy.

Bottom feeders.  :rolleyes:

AKDejaVu

Offline Swoop

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« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2002, 09:18:30 AM »
So how long have you been an international tax expert?


Offline lazs2

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« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2002, 09:35:45 AM »
I know this sounds simplistic but I would do away with the IRS and use sales and property tax as means of supporting the government.   I would also establish "enterprise" accounts.   For instance... all monies collected at the gas pumps would go toward improving roads/transportation...   In this way we could see just what is costing us as individuals and we could better decide what is really needed.
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Offline Swoop

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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2002, 09:51:03 AM »
Well I'd vote for ya.....


Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2002, 10:07:28 AM »
Value added or sales taxes hurt the poor and working class much more than the rich. It ends up being a much larger chunk (percentage) of the middle to lower income earners salary.

A flat tax would be better.

Offline Swoop

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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2002, 10:17:11 AM »
Define "flat tax"


Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2002, 10:24:37 AM »
We currently have a "sliding scale" income tax. The more you make, the higher percentage of your income you pay.

A flat tax means that (for instance) everyone pays 10%. Simplisticly explained, but you get the idea.

Offline Airhead

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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2002, 10:35:41 AM »
At the risk of sharing too much of my private life,I'm self employeed and I consider my taxes the price of doing business in the USA. If you're offering me the opportunity to tap the unlimited potential of the Bermuda consumer base then I must decline, in spite of your promise of a reduced tax rate- I'll continue on struggling through my tax liability here in the USA.

Thanks, Curval, but no thanks.

Offline Curval

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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2002, 11:42:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
At the risk of sharing too much of my private life,I'm self employeed and I consider my taxes the price of doing business in the USA. If you're offering me the opportunity to tap the unlimited potential of the Bermuda consumer base then I must decline, in spite of your promise of a reduced tax rate- I'll continue on struggling through my tax liability here in the USA.

Thanks, Curval, but no thanks.


Airhead - Being as AkDejavu has resorted to putting words into my "mouth" and name calling I thought that I would just ignore him...and make a comment on your post.

As a self-employed person in America selling consumer goods in America to Americans I could do very little for you, in any case, even if you WANTED to set up shop here.  You would not be permitted to sell these goods into the local market, for staters. This is strictly a priviledge extended to local merchants only.

If, however, you were a large US company that was selling goods world-wide I could definately help you.  Of course I would in no way be a part of helping you to avoid paying AkDejavu's favourite tax collectors over at the IRS their due.  Any money repatriated into the United States is declarable and ultimately taxable.  The only real benefit would be a tax defferal for money held outside the US...and the ease of doing business through a non-US company, called an "exempted" company.  These benefits though are attractive enough for a number of US companies who have done just that.

So, no sweat.  I'm not offended, or surprised, that you do not wish to take advantage of the services offered by the little island in which I live.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain