Reperations..........

[midnight Target]

miko - You are an idiot.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by lazs2
saburo... yu add nothing... we don't even know where you stand on the matter.  You are cowardly in attacking those who lashed out and using that to foster a holier than thou attitude.   You come off like a knee jerk liberal.   Why don't you just say who it is that yu think is racist?   Why don't you just tell us how you stand on reparations?  

Why did I single out animal?   Well... gee... He is the only person that apears to be a black guy in the thread.   He would likely have something to gain by reparations.   The rest of us (so far as I know) would have something to lose so.... right or not.. we have self interest involved.

st santa... you are a racist with your swede vs ....oh.. wait a minute.. nevermind.
lazs

...continued from my prebious post.

lazs2,
When I see postings that seem racist/prejudiced in nature, I make the presumption that the person posting believes in what he/she posts. That person has led me to believe that they are racist/prejudiced.
Does that mean that I believe that person belong to the KKK or anyother 'supremacy' organization?
No.
Does it mean that because one has a racist/prejudiced viewpoint, that that also means that they overtly wish to do harm to others?
No.
Does it mean that quite possibly a racist/prejudiced person could oppose policies that would that might try to 'level' the economic playing field?
Yes.
Does it mean that quite possibly a racist/prejudiced person could support policies that could possibly support "exclusion" based on race/religion?
Yes.
Either one is racist/prejudiced or one is not. There is not such a thing as "almost" racist/prejudiced as there is not such a thing as "almost" pregnant.
A "closet" racist is a racist as is a "closet" homosexual is a homosexual (relax, as I am not inferring anyone here as a homosexual, nor would it matter to me what one's sexuality is. But we can save that for another thread.)
True character is who you are when no one is looking. The real you.
If one makes racist/prejudiced/hateful commments then they should not be upset if they get called a racist/prejudiced/hateful person.

Now to answer more directly your questions/comments:

we don't even know where you stand on the matter.

Why do you say "we" in your post? Are you speaking for others that can't speak for themselves? I guess you really mean "I" when you say "we" as somehow that lends credibility to your question.
What "matter" are you talking about?
Reparations? If you actually took the time to read my posts, you would see whether I supported them or not.
If you are talking about how I feel about people using racist, prejudiced, and/or hateful language/arguements to "make" one's viewpoint on the matter of reparations, how much clearer do you wish me to be?
Do you wish me to quote some individual posts for you and label them as racist, prejudiced, and or hateful?
Can you not figure it out on your own? Let me know, I'll be happy to oblige you.

You are cowardly in attacking those who lashed out and using that to foster a holier than thou attitude.   You come off like a knee jerk liberal.

Cowardly? How is it exactly? Are you inferring your "bravery" by your posts? Does it really matter?
Please define "knee-jerk liberal" for me. Odd label to use in this discussion, really. Either my arguements are valid or they are not. Suppose you tell me where they are not.

Why don't you just say who it is that yu think is racist?   Why don't you just tell us how you stand on reparations?  

Do I really need to point out to you specifically which posts were racist in nature?
Which ones were prejudiced in nature?
Which ones were hateful in nature?
Why don't we make it easy for both you and me. Why don't you quote the ones I quoted (just a few that you somehow don't find as possibly racist, prejudiced, and/or hateful) and I'll give you my viewpoint on a more detailed basis.
You're kidding about wanting to really know my views on reparations, right?
I'll repeat it for you as you obviously haven't been really comprehending my posts (or is your attention span just a wee bit short?).
No. Negative. I am against reparations as submitted.
Is it finally clear enough for you?

saburo.. it may be easier to "blend in" as a white person. So What? Your apearance has a lot to do with things. I tend to make snap judgements and threat assesments on people I see on the street... If you look like a banger or a biker or criminal... people will treat you as such. Sorry... no time to bother with you.. If you jive talk your way through a job interview with me with your pants around your knees... I will smile and scratch you off the list. In a crowd...I will talk to a clean black person with a smile before I will talk to the greasy white guy with the scowl.

No mystery. I still am resentful of affirmative action and tend to place less importance (respect less) a black orr woman in a position of power because of the very real chance that it was undeserved. These days, I will ask for the white guy cause if he survived he had to be good... The black or the woman? who knows? Don't care either way but don't have time to sort it all out.

reparations would be another program that hurts race relations for me personally... and after all.... that is the only person I can speak for.
lazs

Racism rears its ugly head again. Sad really.
LOL lazs2, it seems you were the "coward" all along in posting your viewpoint. I understand now. Thank you.
BTW if you really want to continue, please answer my inquiries. Don't be a "coward."
Regards.

PS I already make the assumption that we all speak for ourselves.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Kieran
Saburos-

Guess I'll have to go into your "racist" column, as I cannot hope to avoid using common pronouns such as "they" and "them" when discussing groups of which I am not a member. Further, I have no interest in even trying.

Please tell me which group you are not a member of? Human being or American?
Understand what drives a "group" to have to sue for reparations. If one group perceives to be discriminated against solely because of race, creed, color, and/or religion, do not be surprised for that group to seek to right a perceived wrong. We are talking fellow Americans, not Africans. Any comparison to Americans living in America as opposed to "their" perceived "homeland" (Africa for example) I would feel to be racist or prejudiced in nature.
Japanese Americans were interned in concentration camps and lost everything they couldn't take with them. They lost their houses, businesses, and employment. Most of all they lost their dignity. What are your views on their getting a favorable ruling in their reparations case? Just curious.
The arguement should be how has one group of Americans been treated as opposed to another group of Americans. In this case, has "White" Americans been using their perceived privilege and "power" over "Black" Americans to keep that group from reaching the same level of prosperity.
For those of you that still don't get my stance on reparations, I am against them as I can't see how it can be implimented fairly in this case.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by ethernaut

To SaburoS: I don't think racism or prejudice or bigotry can be reduced to a self-esteem issue. Jealousy, maybe, but not racism. Racism, and I'm not an expert in psycho-social dynamics, I see as more of an ignorance and superiority-complex issue, the latter of which would dovetail with the idea of the "white standard," a sort of divine-monarchy complex of the white male in America with its inherent social (but not biological) advantages. Who but the most enlightened and noble-minded would want to give that up, or even share it? All men were not created equal, but we should all have equal opportunity. Let character determine the rest.

ethernaut,
Bravo and S! It has been awhile since I have seen such an eloquent, intelligent post.
I however do believe that an individual feeling a need to classify whole other groups (race, religion, color, etc.) as "them" or "they" as being insecure with themselves on a deeper, personal level.
Why is there a need to clasify? Cannot the person judge himself on character alone? Must he/she have a need to feel "superior" because he/she belongs to a different "group"?
Doesn't seem to be a secure person who has a need to judge others as not an equal based on race, creed, color, religion, height, weight, etc.
We are who we are.
Regards.

BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with your post. My input here is just how I feel about the insecurity issue only.

[SaburoS]

Funked,
Using "Nword" to describe "cupcake" is very laughable indeed. Somehow using a very derogatory, racial comment is somehow more politically correct by stating it as "Nword" (or N****rs as someone else posted).
Quit being a g*d-d****d, cowardly, racist Pword.
Don't like labels?
Then don't label fellow Americans as "Nword."
You don't like being labeled do you?
Please, don't even THINK that you're not racist.
Incredible.
**rant off**

[Dowding (Work)]

Miko2d - are blacks more likely to be sex tourists exploiting children in Indonesia, or is that a pursuit solely preserved for Australians?

BTW, where's your Bell Curve gone?

[Animal]

Miko, do you really mean everything you said?

Sometimes its hard to believe there are such ignorant and hateful people in this day and age, but of course, I know there are plenty.

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by miko2d
SaburoS: You were looked over because you might 'do' something?
You were stopped by the police to be questioned?
Other people cross the street to avoid crossing your path?
...frustration you would feel just because of your skin pigmentation being dark?

 "Just" because of skin pigmentation? How about the fact that blacks much more likely than whites to commit crimes and are about 200 times more likely than whites to commit violent interracial crimes?


You didn't get that housing you wanted to rent/buy?
You didn't get that job you were seeking?
You didn't get that promotion you were seeking?

 All the examples you cited are of a supposedly racist person hurting his economic situation and benefitting his non-racist (black) competitor.
 If you hire less-capable white instead of more-capable black, drive away black customers, etc. you basically create much more favorable environment (less competition, cheaper more capable workforce) to non-racist, especially black businesses. Why don't those prosper?

 Your implications are that majority of blacks cannot succeed by themsleves but only by whites' sufferance.
 Unfortunately those are absolutely correct. Blacks are less capable than whites and more prone to multitude of illnesses than whites. No amount of affirmative action would correct that.
 Of course destruction of their family values and work ethics by the handouts only made situation worse.

 miko

Wow, really revealing yourself here. I feel sorry for you, really.
You can't possibly be racist, no way

[Eagler]

Originally posted by SaburoS


I feel that African Americans do have a legitimate complaint of discrimination. I'll ask you that are white this:
When is the last time you went into a white run store and the employees thought you would steal something?
You were looked over because you might 'do' something?
You didn't get that housing you wanted to rent/buy?
You didn't get that job you were seeking?
You didn't get that promotion you were seeking?
You were stopped by the police to be questioned?
Other people cross the street to avoid crossing your path?
Now I'll ask you this:
If you were black, do you think the above happens more?
Talking reality here.
if you were a black American, can you see the frustration you would feel just because of your skin pigmentation being dark?
24/7?

I'll try to continue tonight as I have to go to work.
Regards

and WHY is the answer "yes - if black" to most of your questions?

do blacks hold ANY responsibility for the answers or is it ALL whitey's fault?

[SaburoS]

Originally posted by Eagler


and WHY is the answer "yes - if black" to most of your questions?

do blacks hold ANY responsibility for the answers or is it ALL whitey's fault?

Responsibility to being black?
I thought it would be assumed that we would be talking apples to apples here. How wrong of me.
All else being the same, dress, experience, mannerisms, qualifications, etc. Do you feel that Black Americans have been discriminated more than White Americans because of skin pigmentation only?
Should I be more detailed for you or is it finally clear?

[Skuzzy]

If you feel the need to make personal attacks to get a point across, I suggest you find another bulletin board to post at.