Author Topic: Draughts, floods and storms...oh my.  (Read 1001 times)

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Draughts, floods and storms...oh my.
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2002, 01:27:42 PM »
I typed the following into Google...

"China pollution laws"

"China pollution regulations"

"China pollution policies"

It returned nothing.

I typed in "China pollution"

And I got a whole load of responses.

I would like China to adopt regulations, laws and policies on pollution... it's not that hard to understand.

You seem to think I'm comparing pollution output.. I'm comparing the laws, regulations and policies that we have in place on pollution to the lack-there-of China has.

If China had any pollution laws, maybe it wouldn't produce twice as much SO2 as the US. (As far as Per Capita, pfff.. you still produce twice as much)
-SW

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #61 on: November 05, 2002, 03:12:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
I typed the following into Google...
"China pollution laws"
"China pollution regulations"
"China pollution policies"
It returned nothing.
I typed in "China pollution"
And I got a whole load of responses.
I would like China to adopt regulations, laws and policies on pollution... it's not that hard to understand.
You seem to think I'm comparing pollution output.. I'm comparing the laws, regulations and policies that we have in place on pollution to the lack-there-of China has.
If China had any pollution laws, maybe it wouldn't produce twice as much SO2 as the US. (As far as Per Capita, pfff.. you still produce twice as much)
-SW


Strange I got 111,000 results when I typed "China pollution laws". Still I'm sure that as per your previous post you won't let the facts obscure your arguments :D  Anyhow:
Searched the web for China pollution laws.     Results 1 - 10 of about 111,000. Search took 0.21 seconds.
China Environmental Protection - Environmetnal Laws
Environmental Laws in China. Find 49 records! ... Law of the People's Republic of China
on Prevention and Control of Water Pollution [1984-05-11] [1996-5-15]. ...
http://www.zhb.gov.cn/english/law.php3 - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

IC-SEA: SEA-SPAN Posted Message
... mess caused by lax enforcement of pollution laws, outdated technology and massive
underfunding, a new report said. The report, "The China Environmental Market ...
http://www.icsea.or.id/sea-span/0497/IE1202LL.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

quest25
... 3. According to the passage the main problem in making progress in China is: (a)
the lack of laws forbidding environmental pollution (b) the lack of awareness ...
http://www.edict.com.hk/vlc/comp/quest25T.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Lehman, Lee & Xu
... Links. Environment Laws & Regulations in China. ... Enforcement Regulations for Law
on Prevention of Air Pollution of the People's Republic of China - 1991. ...
http://www.lehmanlaw.com/lib/library/Laws_regulations/ environment.htm - 35k - Cached - Similar pages

laws, policies and regulations of China in English
... Laws, Statutes and files, Regulations and files, ... Regulations of the People's Republic
of China on the Control over Prevention of Pollution by Vessels in Sea ...
law.zhb.gov.cn/index_eng.php - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

Cleaner Production (Pollution Prevention) in China -- Links about ...
... what factors make pollution controls effective. ... laws_maincontent_el.html -- laws and
regulations. ... For information about China's environmental legislation, see CP ...
http://www.chinacp.com/eng/cplinks/envleg.html - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Fishery Laws and Regulations
A List of Laws and Regulations Related to Fisheries. ... 1983 - The Regulation for Preventing
Marine Pollution from Ship, People's Republic of China, issued by ...
http://www.lib.noaa.gov/china/archi/law.htm - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

Human & Nature in Harmony - Legislation - Laws (Page 1)
Legislation: Laws, All. 49 Record(s): 1 2, NEXT. ... Law of the People's Republic of China
on Prevention and Control of Pollution From Environmental ...
http://www.enviroinfo.org.cn/LEGIS/Laws/index_en.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

China: Laws and Policies to Protect the Environment and Health
... Environmental Laws and Regulations. Since the promulgation of the Environmental
Protection Law in 1979, the first of its kind in China, 5 pollution-control ...
http://www.wri.org/wri/wr-98-99/prc2laws.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

Integrating Environmental Considerations into the Economic ...
... The laws and regulations such as the Law on Prevention and Control of Water Pollution
in the People's Republic of China, the Law on Prevention and Control of ...
http://www.unescap.org/drpad/publication/integra/ volume2/china/2ch05e02.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages


Try that first link  http://www.zhb.gov.cn/english/law.php3- it gets you straight to the laws on environmental pollution in the PRC.

For a serious negative on google try "US ratifies Kyoto" ;)

As to "the laws, regulations and policies that we have in place on pollution to the lack-there-of China has" - you still produce twice as much SO2 per capita with all your regulations, so they are pretty dodgy controls at best. My point is that were China to implement similar controls then we should expect them to produce double the amount of pollution they do now.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2002, 03:26:38 PM by -dead- »
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Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #62 on: November 05, 2002, 04:02:57 PM »
Dead, that's because I put it into the search engine exactly as I typed it above. Including the "... which means it will search for all three of those words and unless it has all three, I won't get a result.

Now, as for the single link you listed as the laws... scroll a lil' further down that list of links you got...

"mess caused by lax enforcement of pollution laws, outdated technology and massive
underfunding, a new report said."

"According to the passage the main problem in making progress in China is: (a)
the lack of laws forbidding environmental pollution (b) the lack of awareness ... "


As for the Kyoto Treaty... hey, if your country wants to follow the guidelines of a poorly written treaty... be my guest... why should we sign something that is ineffective?

you still produce twice as much SO2 per capita with all your regulations, so they are pretty dodgy controls at best. My point is that were China to implement similar controls then we should expect them to produce double the amount of pollution they do now.

That's all semantics and BS... you STILL produce twice as much SO2 OVERALL. Per Capita don't matter if you guys still produce TWICE as MUCH OVERALL. Get it now?

If you adopted better regulations, laws and policies, maybe you would produce HALF as MUCH OVERALL... which would actually bring you down to the level of the US, instead of increasing...

Funny, since we put our regulations in place... pollution has gone down dramatically... I don't see how that's "dodge controls at best" if it decreased...
-SW

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2002, 04:26:50 PM »
Quote
Is the fact that this is the worst recorded drought in Australian history.


wow. all 250 years of it?

in fact, a pitifuly short nanosecond of history as compared to 'since the last ice age'.

I don't mean to belittle the debate.. but to my ears, it smacks of chicken little syndrome. When I think of how much we pay, as americans, for our precious 'green'; initiatives; as compared to what the citizenry of the rest of the would pays out of pocket as concessions to mother nature... and then again look at the state of mans transgressions against the planets biosphere NOW as compared to 1800... folks we ain't dumpin half as much crap into the air as a nation as London alone did 200 years ago.

As for the chineese.. fek the lil bastids.

I doubt seriously that paving half of califonia is gonna effect the endgame for that place... matters not if the roads are dirt, asphalt or concrete out there, frankly, its just not gonna have a damn thing to do with how far under water the damn place is gonna wind up in the next hundered years.

..and when osma's minions finally reduce NYC to rubble, I ain't gonna give a toejam how many tons of hydrocarbons china tosses into the atmosphere.

Priorities.
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #64 on: November 05, 2002, 04:34:34 PM »
I'm not trying to lay blame for global warming, I'm trying to point out the dangers of it.

As for priorities, how much damage does it have to do before it becomes a concern?

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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« Reply #65 on: November 05, 2002, 04:42:03 PM »
Thrawn, as evidenced in this thread, it IS a concern. Otherwise the US wouldn't have the EPA...

The problem is, not the entire world cares... and on top of that, there's very few other alternatives...

we could stop the whole pollution thing by going back to horse drawn wagons, living out of straw huts and... well basically go back 1000+ years...

Industrialization creates pollution, and there are very few alternatives available. They are being investigated and more are coming along...

but basically, aside from pollution control and the FEW alternatives... there ain't jack we can do about it....
-SW

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2002, 01:24:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Dead, that's because I put it into the search engine exactly as I typed it above. Including the "... which means it will search for all three of those words and unless it has all three, I won't get a result.
Now, as for the single link you listed as the laws... scroll a lil' further down that list of links you got...
"mess caused by lax enforcement of pollution laws, outdated technology and massive
underfunding, a new report said."
"According to the passage the main problem in making progress in China is: (a)
the lack of laws forbidding environmental pollution (b) the lack of awareness ... "

As for the Kyoto Treaty... hey, if your country wants to follow the guidelines of a poorly written treaty... be my guest... why should we sign something that is ineffective?
you still produce twice as much SO2 per capita with all your regulations, so they are pretty dodgy controls at best. My point is that were China to implement similar controls then we should expect them to produce double the amount of pollution they do now.
That's all semantics and BS... you STILL produce twice as much SO2 OVERALL. Per Capita don't matter if you guys still produce TWICE as MUCH OVERALL. Get it now?
If you adopted better regulations, laws and policies, maybe you would produce HALF as MUCH OVERALL... which would actually bring you down to the level of the US, instead of increasing...
Funny, since we put our regulations in place... pollution has gone down dramatically... I don't see how that's "dodge controls at best" if it decreased...
-SW

Actually the quotes means it searches for the exact phrase - so really you should probably type it in Simplified Chinese - seeing as that's the language they write all the laws in :D

As to the semantics & BS charge - well I obviously haven't gone over the key concept in simple enough terms: The more people there are, the more pollution is created.
So lets turn your argument on onto your own country. I have chosen the UK in this instance because the US has approximately 4.5 times the population of the UK - so it's close to comparing China and the US.

The US produces seven times the amount of SO2 Overall that the UK does. Note that - not 2, not 4.5 but 7 times the amount. How do you explain that? Don't forget - any appeal to "per capita" and population size is just semantics and BS - [presumably in your argument it's all down to regulations]. Perhaps if the US adopted better regulations, laws and policies, maybe you would produce ONE SEVENTH as MUCH OVERALL... which would actually bring you down to the level of the UK?

As to the "China is filthy" links - sure - China is a filthy polluter - it's only clean in comparison to the US. My point is that any US outcry over third world pollution is more than just a tad hypocritical - People who live in greenhouses shouldn't throw stones. :D
« Last Edit: November 07, 2002, 01:28:10 AM by -dead- »
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2005, 12:26:53 AM »
Update.


That worst drought on record in Australia still going on.


"Australia's Drought Worsens as Autumn Rains Fail, Bureau Says
June 2 (Bloomberg) -- Rains failed across most of southeastern Australia in the autumn, worsening a drought covering almost half the farmland in the world's second-largest wheat-exporting nation, the government's weather forecaster said.

The March-to-May season was the driest since rainfall records were first kept in 1900 in the states of Victoria and South Australia, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology said in a statement on its Web site today. New South Wales state recorded its second-lowest autumn rainfall, while the island state of Tasmania had its fourth-driest season on record.

``There has been no prolonged period of widespread above- average falls'' to ease the country's worst drought in 100 years, which began in 2002, the bureau said. ``Furthermore, the effects of rainfall deficits have been exacerbated by some of the highest temperatures on record.''

Farmers in Australia, also the world's second-biggest beef and canola exporter, count on rain between April and May to moisten soils ahead of crop planting and to boost pasture supply. With drought gripping 45 percent of agricultural land, crop prospects are deteriorating and may cut profit at companies including GrainCorp Ltd., Australia's biggest grain handler.

Treasurer Peter Costello said yesterday farm industries are suffering, hampering the country's economic growth."


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000081&sid=apOzXMTCnnic&refer=australia
 

I wonder what hurricane season in Florida will be like this year.

Offline Rino

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« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2005, 12:48:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kanth
They can't even get the 5 day weather forcast right most of the time.

It's more likely in my mind that they will come back 5 years from now and say oops that whole global warming thing was a mistake, it was actually just a natural cycle that won't really hurt anyone or extinct the human race, sorry about that.


     Hiya Kanth, longtime no see!  Maybe you can sail on over to
the east coast when the flooding starts! :)
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Offline Pooh21

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« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2005, 04:36:55 AM »
Holy thread necromancy, Kanth posted almost three years ago.
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Offline Bluedog

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« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2005, 07:09:10 AM »
And it still hasn't bloody rained!! :(

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2005, 11:35:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
I wonder what hurricane season in Florida will be like this year.




Well here's at least a partial answer to that question.



"New storm brews in Atlantic
Last Updated Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:25:28 EDT
CBC News

A fifth named storm, dubbed Emily, developed in the Atlantic Ocean late Monday and could set its sights on the Caribbean later this week.

The tropical storm is churning up waters about 1,600 km south of the Lesser Antilles with winds of about 70 km/h. The Antilles are a chain of small islands between the Caribbean Sea and the Atlantic.

Emily marks the first time there have been five named storms so early in the Atlantic hurricane season."


http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/07/12/tropicalstorm-050712.html

Offline cpxxx

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« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2005, 12:27:06 PM »
The sun has shone and the temperature has been hot for the last three days. It's like...........summer.  It's a sure sign of global warming. It's all our fault we did it. We made the rain stop. In less than a hundred years of serious industrialisation we made the world warm up.

You know why? Because 75% of scientists that ever lived are still alive today and need to justify their existence. So they act like the high priests of old and scare us. They are privy to the great knowledge. Mother Earth is angry because of the folly of our ways. We must repent, reuse and recycle, sayeth the scientists.

Anyone who does not believe this is a blasphemer. There are many signs and portents. Floods, famines and sunny days.  

Just like the old religions. Bad weather,   severe weather, storms, volcanoes and floods meant God or the Gods were angry or displeased. Thus they must be appeased.

That is what much of global warming is about. When you get right down to it. We humans are still the superstitious beings we always were. The difference is now that we are better educated and less inclined to believe in a supernatural cause.  Now to appease the Gods we reuse and recycle or leave the car at home and travel on the bus with all the people who cannot afford a car.

There is serious science being done but you can bet your bottom dollar that if any of it contradicts the great message that we humans caused global warming and that the world is warming up rapidly and it's all our fault. Then it will thrashed by everyone. Like an atheist at a bible meeting.

Maybe it is  true but my personal instinct is that most people are mostly wrong most of the time.

I just cannot accept that the warm spell we are having right now is proveably caused by humans.

Yes I am an ecological blasphemer.  You should hear the trouble I get into when I point out that recycling glass (sand) and paper (grows on farmed trees) causes  more greenhouse gases than simply putting them in a hole in the ground.  

But what do I know? I'm not a scientist and thus privy to the great truth.

:lol
« Last Edit: July 12, 2005, 12:32:12 PM by cpxxx »

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2005, 12:34:41 PM »
I have heard that conspiracy theory many times before, cpxxx.  However I have not yet seen one shread of evidence to support it.

While have I have seen much evidence to support theory that global warming is happening, and the primary cause is humans.

Offline AWMac

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« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2005, 01:13:02 PM »
The Sky is Falling, The Sky is Falling........

:rolleyes: