Author Topic: Solutions and Statistics..... (Read 546 times)

DoctorYO · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2002, 01:28:08 PM »

INN,

I dont want to insult you but yes perk planes are that good....

example: big debate going on in the aircraft forum about the f4u4 "why is it perked"

in that whole discussion noone once mentioned highspeed climb. the silly climbrates at like 275ias-300ias at 3k or more, thats why the f4u4 is perked and that alone....

yes the mustang and the g10 can do it to some degree but do they have the roll, the flaps, the dployable gear brakes, the outstanding over the nose view, carrierbased, fuel (la7 endurance is question) this list goes on and on.

perk planes usually have all attributes where as the g10 la7 mustang etc are very strong in some areas weak in others.

Just becuase your blind to these attibutes doesn't mean everyone else is.

your claim of perks doesn't matter tell that to the Tempest hordes who rain on some bases parade and live to tell about it.

Perk planes alone can affect the outcome of a battle but unlikely that of the war.....

......

Furious

Do we need no.... Would we enjoy the game more and be more fair all countries yes.

We need to ask our selves which is more important gaming the game like INN (even though he denied this, RA kindly points out his denial)

or more but limited realism (note i say limited. ) and as INN pointed out far from unbalancing..... He notes the Tags, Ah yes the tags again i dont want to insult you but tags can be a good thing kind of like a gambit in chess or opening with something less used like staunton C4.... If you want ill do a post on tags and how they could be used to your advantage, but thats is another story.

Danish Gambit........ --------> your move

DoctorYO

Shane · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2002, 01:45:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate
When it comes to winning the war, I'd rather have a newbie who doesn't mind dying on my side, than a fighter pilot who is going to hang out at 20k picking off stray enemy fighters. Sometimes skill can be a liability.

that's not "skill" that's pure lame chickenchitness.

Innominate · « **Reply #17 on:** November 08, 2002, 01:50:06 PM »

You make it sound like the perk planes are 262's.

They have advantages, which are more than negated by thier tags. There is nothing wrong with the perk planes themselves, or thier cost. (Though cost is pretty irrelavent, they could be half or double thier cost, and thier effectivness and usage wouldn't change.

Perk planes have virtually no effect on the game. What little effect they do have is almost entirely attributable to the 262.

Personally I think that the perk planes should be treated as rewards, not punishments.

--
And DoctorYo, you are the perfect example of what I refer to.

You fly a n1k2 in the fighter role most of the time, and you do well in it. You also have flown a couple of attack missions, and have done well there. But the vast majority was in a n1k2, which is a bad jabo platform at best.

--
The rooks biggest problem is attitude, fixing that would solve the numbers problems.

Turbot · « **Reply #18 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:18:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate
Plus all of the perk planes, excepting the 262 have a free "cousin" with similar(slightly below, but only sligtly) performance.

Tempest: La7
F4U-4: P-51D
Spit14: 109G-10
152: 190-D9

Model K D Kill% Death% K/DRatio

Tempest 514 108 0.42 0.09 4.72
La-7 7542 6499 6.18 5.33 1.16

F4U-4 112 73 0.09 0.06 1.51
P-51D 9583 9343 7.86 7.66 1.03

SpitXIV 143 99 0.12 0.08 1.43
109G-10 3503 2729 2.87 2.24 1.28

Ta 152H 405 132 0.33 0.11 3.05
190D-9 3699 2448 3.03 2.01 1.51

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #19 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:21:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate
The rooks biggest problem is attitude, fixing that would solve the numbers problems.

Again, the statistics do not necessarily support this supposition. I could just as reasonably argue that it is because of the numbers that Rooks are forced to fly in a defensive, air-to-air manner all of the time.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Turbot · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:22:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate
You make it sound like the perk planes are 262's.

They have advantages, which are more than negated by thier tags.

The Tempest has 36 kills and has been killed 9 times against the La-7.

The P-51D has 8 kills and has been killed 13 times against the F4U-4.

The Spitfire Mk XIV has 4 kills and has been killed 4 times against the Bf 109G-10.

The Ta 152H has 13 kills and has been killed 3 times against the Fw 190D-9.

Innominate · « **Reply #21 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:27:29 PM »

Turbot, comparing perked and non-perked planes k/d ratios is meaningless. If you unperked the perk planes, thier k/d would be just as bad. If you perked the 109g10, la7, dora, or p51d, thier k/d ratios would go through the roof. Not because of thier ability, but because the way people fly them would change.

Flying conservativly, and shutting out the pilots who have no intention of landing will cause ANY plane's k/d ratio to go way up.

DoctorYo, The f4u4 doesnt climb anywhere near 3000fpm in a 275-300mph IAS climb. It gets about 2250 on WEP. (Under 10k)

And lev, you may be right.
Do people avoid switching to rooks, because rooks are outnumbered, or because the rooks aren't any fun to fly with?
Then again, nobody is ever forced to fly in a defensive manner, in fact, doing so almost guarentees a loss. Defending in AH is really delaying. If you aren't attacking, you're not going to get anywhere.

Then again, Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #22 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:42:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate
And lev, you may be right.
Do people avoid switching to rooks, because rooks are outnumbered, or because the rooks aren't any fun to fly with?
Then again, nobody is ever forced to fly in a defensive manner, in fact, doing so almost guarentees a loss. Defending in AH is really delaying. If you aren't attacking, you're not going to get anywhere.

The problem is that it's almost impossible to successfully "win" in AH while suffering from a massive (i.e. 2 to 1 or greater) numbers disadvantage for reasons I mentioned earlier. You can send your entire country to attack an enemy base while the enemy sends half of his to defend it and the other half to take the rest of your undefended bases.

Result: You still lose. And who wants to be on a losing team anyway?

-- Todd/Leviathn

Innominate · « **Reply #23 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:43:51 PM »

A coordinated attack on a field, to take out it's hangars in one blow can win even against far superior numbers. Once an offensive is going, defenders tend to move elsewhere. The more momentum you can get going, the more numbers will start to swing in your favor, the easier the base captures get.

I won't argue that the rooks aren't consistantly badly outnumbered, they are. I won't argue that HTC shouldn't try and do something to help the problem, they should. But the rooks need to help themselves also, instead of whining and waiting for HTC to do something, or for people to switch out of pity.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #24 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:46:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate
A coordinated attack on a field, to take out it's hangars in one blow can win even against far superior numbers.

While in the meantime, three more fields fall as the coordinated base attackers no longer serve as base defenders.

Practically a zero-sum game for the outnumbered side.

-- Todd/Leviathn

DoctorYO · « **Reply #25 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:54:14 PM »

I was waiting till you would engage in score whoring... ah yes score...

Note to all :

My dammage to death vs ground targets:

21249.90145 (122) dammage to death

14166.60097 (139) dammage per sortie

Note your score....

16056.9922 (206) dammage per death

6513.68551 (476) dammage per sortie

Im i missing something Ive flown 2 mission in Shiden in attack role, 1 death (congrats NB) and one landed.. that 4 250kgs on target...

1 mission Zero white 2 50kg bombs

3 missions zero green 1 250kg and 2 50kg's

now what are babbling about....

Maybe I like flying the shiden, Go do a stats check all the way back to beta...

Since they nutered the shiden its no longer a superplane; and hence I need some practice in it. I prefer any latewar american iron over it. And i prefer any 109 over any american bird. But wait im trying to pad my stats....

actually im just flying japanese this tour... your pathetic jab at plane type is riposted...

Why if my plane is so bad at jabo have higher dammage ratio than your p38.....

Shiden is not best at jabo but very capable. 500kg of bombs is no slouch.

Combined with 4 HO99's your talking some powerhouse jabo.. But then again reason is useless to the stuborn.

hell I like the zero's 250kg and 50kg wingbombs. Very effective indeed.

I think you see the world as a glass of water half empty.

You need to open your eyes....

Have a Nice day INN... Pleasure rattling ya.

DoctorYo

Turbot · « **Reply #26 on:** November 08, 2002, 02:57:57 PM »

Anyway back to the original topic.

The defender should always have the higher Kill vs. Death. (I gather it is accepted that Rooks have been mostly in defensive roll?) It is undeniably easier to kill bomb laden aircraft, and the attackers are far from home and hence less likely to rtb - that is if the attcking plane doesn't just suicide in right off giving the defender a proximity kill . Plus the defenders are fighting in their own AAA.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #27 on:** November 08, 2002, 03:01:39 PM »

Answering the first post, bishorcs are people unavble to do anything without the support of the horde, knights are just the same.

Krusher · « **Reply #28 on:** November 08, 2002, 03:03:49 PM »

Not that I really care about attrition but, would it work if it was based per player?

per day quota (based on plane value)
1 262
1 Spit XIV
1 F4U-4

2 P51
2 109G10
2 La7

3 P47's
3 La5's
3 Spit V

You still have your choice of aircraft, but it is limited.

ygsmilo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 08, 2002, 03:05:39 PM »

Hiya Dr. Yo