Set up for tomorrow, 8 Nov: Burma

[brady]

So we have an Alied plane the P40b which has no sutible Axis plane that it can outpreform to set aganst it..., Curently the A6M2 is the earlest Axis plane modeled In AH, I do beleave it is in fact Earler the the 109E, the P40 E's real apponent would of been the A6M3 or later Which we do not have, the E is still a pig by comparison and the only big advantage it has over the Zero is to increase the firepower advantage the b already has. The Hurican is the best foil for the Zero in this set up, we can not recreat the easy victories the Flying Tigers had in the CBI untill we get the pos planes they faught aganst the Claud's and the Nates. What we have is a set up designed to creat the feal of the theater, in a time frame that Japanese kicked but in, but each side has strengths and weakness, the Japanes planes are very frail and lightly armed, the Allied planes ave tremendious fire power advantages in hitting power, and range, and ammo load, they are tough planes, and while the P40b neads to be used carefull, DONT TURN IT , the Huricane with 50% or less fuel and flaps can easly turn with the Zero, and waste it with 303's, I shreaded 4 no problem today. I truley wish we had a better plane set with more thought given to balenced match up's, but every update brings us closer and one day we may indead have some dog's the P40b can outpreform:)

[brady]

Ki 27 (Nate):Used extensively in the First year of the war in all theaters by the Japanese Army, and throught the war in a diminishing capacty as the years went on.

 spead:aprox. 292 mph

 Aramement: Two 7.7mm MG's, and light bombs four 55 pound bombs.

 Aprox. 3,399 Ki 27's were built.

[eskimo2]

Right now the A6M-2 is 54/41 (K/D = 1.32) over the P-40B.
The A6M-2 is 43/34 (K/D = 1.26) over the Hurri-1.

I havn't had a chance to fly this set-up yet, so I havn't seen first hand how things are going.  
Very often, the CT guys with experience fly axis to ballance things out, and the Newbies fly Allied because they can't contemplate working for anyone other than the good guys.  If this was the case last night, I'd say the stats indicate a fair plane ballance (ya gotta expect the experienced guys to do better if things are a fair match).  
If, however, both sides had plenty of experienced players, and the Allies had a numerical advantage, and still took a beating, then perhaps the Zeke outclasses the P-40B by too much.  Just supposing here, I wasn't there.  

See you guys tonight.

eskimo

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by brady
Ki 27 (Nate):Used extensively in the First year of the war in all theaters by the Japanese Army, and throught the war in a diminishing capacty as the years went on.

 spead:aprox. 292 mph

 Aramement: Two 7.7mm MG's, and light bombs four 55 pound bombs.

 Aprox. 3,399 Ki 27's were built.

If we ever get this bird, it'll be a shoe in for the Battle of the Turds!

eskimo

[brady]

A5M, Claud:

  Produced untill 1940, and still equiping 3 fleat caries at the time of the attack on Pear Harbor, the type was used in china before the war, howeaver, It quickly faded from front line use as soon as WW2 started for Japan in 41, only being used in limited numbers during the first part of the pacific conflect in the front lines.

 Speed:280-295mph depending on model.

 Arament: Two 7.7mm and two 20mm MGFF.

 Aprox. 1094 were produced.

[brady]

The Ki-43-I, entered production in APR.41(this was the first service production aircraft model of this type), aprox 716 were produced untill, replaced on the production linnes by the Ki 43-II in November 42, all that time between Feb and november produced 5 prototypes and 3 trials aircraft! Then 2,492 Ki-43-II's were produced from Nov 42 to Oct.44 for a total of aprox.3,239.

 Ki-43-I/II

 Speed:308/329

 Aramement: Early two 7.7mm MG's(ki-43-Ia), Then one 7.7mm and one 12.7mm Ho-103(Ki-43-Ib),Finaly Two 12.7mm Ho-103.

  The Ki-43-I could cary Two 33 pound bombs the "II" two 550 pound bombs.

  The Oscar, is to say the least Lightly armed, yet was one of the primary FTr types in the CBI and the PAC for the Japanese Army, in the early to mid war perioud, during the first year of the war it shared the skys in increasing numbers with the Nate untill it replaced it in most theaters as a front line ftr.

[brady]

Oscar:

[Squire]

From December 1941 to July of 1942 the AVG flew P-40Bs, most of the IJAAF fighter opposition was Ki-27 Nates. After the USAAF took over with P-40Es (and P-40Bs early mixed)  the IJAAF had mainly Ki-43s. As a stand in the A6M2 is fine, but its more fighter than the Ki-43-1 ever was, and a hell of a lot more than a Ki-27, so if your wondering why the P-40B doesnt do all that well, thats the reason.

I would like to see the perk point system used sometimes in CT setups, you could have P-40Bs and P-40Es perked as one way of including both types.

I also agree on the Ki-67, its untouchable unless you dive on it with 6 x 50s.

The P-40s in the CBI gave as good as they got in air to air combat, the P-40 model had its best k/d ratio of any WW2 theater in Burma, better than the Med, better than the SW Pacific, better than the Lend Lease P-40s that flew for the Soviets. If it ever shone in WW2, Burma was the place it did. Just for info, has nothing to do with the CT setup.

Later.

[Kweassa]

if you are allied and just cant handle not being faster..

 Amen, brady, amen.

 Remember what happened in Lybia folks? Shane's consistent whining was making people tiresome, but yes, to say the truth, Shane did have a point. As did Wotan.

 So what we generally agree on CT is "doing the best we can", basically siding with the initial choices the staff had set, and changing things only when it was undeniably catastrophic to balance. The reasoning we gave out to Shane was, advantages and disadvantages are part of the CT, and balance goes only so far.  Part of the fun in CT is trying to overcome problems in disadvantaged situations.

 Every Axis enthusiast complained about the PAC setups, but remeber those setups were still carried out, because we were limited and had no other choice. People were stuck with Ki-61s and Zeros against Corsairs and Hellcats - were it in the MA nobody in there sane mind would try to fight in disadvantaged planes.

 So I suggest try thinking it as "taking turns". As brady says, where's the fun if you Allied guys want  to be in faster planes all the time? Besides, trust me, fighting series 2 Zeros(aka. the "Matchbox" ) in P-40Bs can't be as bad as trying to fight F4U-1s in A6M-5bs. Hey, there were c.202s and the slug Bf109E-4 fighting against 6 x .50 armed, "dive like crazy" P-40Es.

 So try and swallow this one graciously as well. This time the Axis gets a better fighter, which is inevitably because this is "the best we can do".

[J_A_B]

"People were stuck with Ki-61s and Zeros against Corsairs and Hellcats "

And that is every bit as silly.  The Ki-61 can sort of handle the Hellcat (at least it can compete), but I wish HTC never added the F4U-1, at least not without also adding decent 1943 Japanese fighters. 1943 PTO just wasn't a great time for balance.


BTW Brady, I wouldn't say the P-40B has a firepower advantage over the Zero.   Quite the opposite.   Both planes have crap for firepower but at least the Zeke gets cannons (if you can hit with them).  The P-40B's firepower is only slightly better than that of the MC 202, and the 4 .30's lack the nice ballistics most American fliers are used to.  

So look at this setup...instead of Ki-27's and Ki-43-I's (both useless junk), the Japanese side has A6M2's, a vastly superior fighter both in firepower and performance.   The Allies are stuck with the P-40B, which is worse than the plane they actually had both in firepower and performance.  There is no balance reason to do this as neither P-40 is better than the Zero in typical CT consitions.


Squire--even the AVG used the P-40E for ther last couple months before they were absorbed into the USAAF.


Oh and BTW, the A6M2 is faster than either model of P-40 if you just get some altitude under ya.  S I'd hardly call it an "allied speed complaint", especially since I fly axis in the CT more than I fly allied, when I fly there at all.

J_A_B

[Buzzbait]

S!

Ki61 and Hellcat are a great matchup.

Turn goes very slightly to the Ki61, climb very slightly to the Hellcat.  Speed slightly to the Hellcat, firepower is close, the Hellcat better at long range, but the Ki61 devastating at short range.  (one good burst from those close grouped 20mm's in the nose and kaboom!)  Both handle very well at high speeds.

I am thinking of creating a setup which is based on a mid '44 strike on the Phillipines by a US based Carrier Force.   (one of the softening up raids prior to the Invasion of Leyte)  It would use one of the Phillipines maps, perhaps Mindanao.

Aircraft would be:

USN

Hellcat
FM-2
SBD
TBM


IJA and IJN

Ki61
A6m5
Val
Kate
Ki67

[Squire]

JAB, yes, you are right on that. P-40E was used for a few months by the AVG. May 42 to July 42 I think. I dont have the exact dates.

Later

[ergRTC]

What the hell was wrong with libya?  202 and 109e vs p40es?  What were the final scores on that one?

ahhemm... musta been the lw pilots...

I just dont want to hear any whining when the vf launches on tuesday with 10 p40bs flying in formation.

[Eagler]

so what's next weeks setup? done with this one ...