Author Topic: Irony (Read 332 times)

Hortlund · « **Reply #15 on:** November 12, 2002, 07:13:27 AM »

Hint #2: Was the RSHA a part of the SS?

straffo · « **Reply #16 on:** November 12, 2002, 07:27:00 AM »

AAARGH ?

Sabre · « **Reply #17 on:** November 12, 2002, 07:47:27 AM »

Hint: What were the two key components of SPAM?

Sabre · « **Reply #18 on:** November 12, 2002, 07:48:35 AM »

Answer: This is a trick question, as the ingredients of Spam have never been identified. Just ask any WWII vet.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #19 on:** November 12, 2002, 08:00:26 AM »

I always considered RSHA part of the overall SS organization since SS was just Himmlers large personal empire.

As for what RSHA was composed of I think basically the biggest two were SD and Gestapo although of course it got into bunch of other stuff.

Hortlund · « **Reply #20 on:** November 12, 2002, 08:25:00 AM »

RSHA was separate from SS. The two major components were SD (a party organization) and Gestapo (a government organization). The Kripo ("normal" police) was also a part of RSHA.

So you have the SS with its three branches (Allgemeine, Totenkopf and Waffen) Then you have the SD which is organized under Himmler, and completely made up of SS personnell but formally under RSHA.

The reason for this is because the SD and Gestapo were having horrible jurisdiction problems with both organizations wanting to deal with the same areas of responsibility. At the same time no one wanted to have the SS take over the Gestapo or the Kripo. Even for Germany ala 1936 it was too much to have a police force run by the party instead of the government.

So a new "agency" was set up. The central agency for the Reichs security (my translation of Reichssicherheitshauptamt). Under this agency all policiary/internal security organizations were placed. The RSHA then drew the jurisdiction boundaries between the Gestapo and the SD.

At Nuremburg the SD was tried together with the Gestapo instead of together with the SS.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #21 on:** November 12, 2002, 08:49:37 AM »

"Then you have the SD which is organized under Himmler, and completely made up of SS personnell but formally under RSHA. "

Our disagreement is merely one of mindset, SD is clearly an SS organization....

Hortlund · « **Reply #22 on:** November 12, 2002, 09:05:21 AM »

No, reread my post.

The SD was an organization under RSHA. In Nuremberg it was not tried together with the SS (if the SD had been a part of the SS it would have been tried as an SS unit).

The fact that the personnell in the SD were all members of the SS is irrelevant. You have to separate the individuals working in the organization from the organization itself.

Another example:
Even though all members of the SS Riding club (yes there was such a thing) were members of the SS and indeed it was a prerequisite for membership, that did not mean that the SS riding club (notice the name) was a part of the SS.

Sounds confusing enough for you?
(Hey, dont ask me, ask the Judges at Nuremburg).

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #23 on:** November 12, 2002, 09:13:18 AM »

I consider them the same because the personalities involved are inseperable from the SS, thats why I said its matter of mindset. I'm not overly concerned with the legalistic interpatation...