Author Topic: Planes you would like to see for CT/SEA?  (Read 1276 times)

Offline oboe

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Planes you would like to see for CT/SEA?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2002, 08:11:01 PM »
Since you asked...

Ki.43, Ki.44, Ki.45, Ki.84, Ki.100, J2M3, A6M3-22
D4Y, B6N
Ki.21, G4M
H8K flying boat, A6M2-N Rufe and N1K1 Kyofu floatplanes

P-38F, G, or H, P-39D, P-39Q, A-36, P-51A

Brewster B-239 (Finnish) and F2A-3 (USMC)
TBD Devastator
B-25
B-24
B-29 (no atomic bomb, ever)

I-16, Lagg-3, Mig-1, Yak-3, Pe-2

Ju-87D, Ju-87G
Ju-52
He-111

Sm-79, CR.42

Gloster Gladiator
Wellington

Offline Miska

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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2002, 07:14:40 AM »
I am entirely with Erg and Oed on this one.  Lets see some workhorses.  Better yet, lets use them!  How about some French Potez bombers?  He-111 is ABSOLUTELY required.

Offline brady

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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2002, 03:29:30 PM »
We nead to think objectively hear gents, and try and avoid redundant types for countries, planes like the He 111 and b 25 are clearly not neaded and would imo be a serious waste of time, denying us planes of simmilar types for countries curently not having them, Russia and Italy have no bombers and Germany and the US are doing ok In this area, Germany has the best early war bomber it coulkd hope for in the JU 88, it does not nead an He 111, the only bomber worth adding for Germany would be The he 177 and even that is not a big issue, what is a pressing Issue is that Russia get a leval bomber and that Italy get one as well:

 Priorites:

 Russia:

    Early to mid war fighter I-16
    Leval Bomber Tu-4

  Italy:
    Early war fighter C.200
    Leval bomber Z 1007

  Japan:
     Fighter's Oscar,A6M3,Ki-84, Ki 102 or 45
     Mid to late war strike platform, Jill,Juddy,Grace, Francis

         Any one or two of the above planes would be great for Japan.

      Those are the prioriites imo, all other plane types are nice or would be nice to have but are in the end only fill, the above plane types would allow us much more flexability in representing Hisorical setup's and provide a wider base for us to do so.

Offline ergRTC

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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2002, 03:41:57 PM »
Here is were we differ.  Just cause it sucks doesnt mean we dont need it.  The glad sucked, the brewster sucked but I want to fly em.  Just like the he111 sucked but that doesnt mean I dont want to shoot one down.

Adding planes cause they were great, to me, is booooorrrrrriiiinnnnggg.

Now italian an russian bombers I believe should be priority, as that will make this game original, but you got to admit, b25s were 'the' bomber in the pacific.  He111s were germany's mainstay in the early war, and where the hell is the stuka?
Using those mach 10 ju88s for the bob is kinda lame too (yeah I know, blatant whine sorry).  Yes they were around but most of germanies bombers were stukas and he111s (at first).

I am sure all of these are coming *(not the b25) so I am not squeaking too loudly.  I just hate getting stuff cause its fast, and has huge guns.

Offline brady

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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2002, 04:39:27 PM »
ergRTC, I know what your saying, and to a certain extant I feal the same way, I just try and limit myself to not ask for somthing we do not nead right now, ya a he 111 would be cool a stuka would be too, but is it realy neaded or neaded at the expense of not geting a buff for Russia, it is true about the B 25, but what about an earler varient of the B 26 instead be easer for HTC to do and free up valuable time for other planes that are neaded, It kinda boils down to this If you want this you cant you have that, or at least not right away, We are seeing what like 8 to 10 new planes a year for HTC( not varients truly new planes) and bombers suck up the production time, I heard a 4 engine bomber takes as long to build a 4 fighters!, I always wanted an He 162, I doubt I will see it personaly, we all have our cross to bear:)

Offline ergRTC

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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2002, 04:50:45 PM »
all i gotta say is we have a rocket powered german intercepter.

explain that one.

wow factor?  yeah just a little.

I thought stuka for the con woulda been better...

I think this game (if they can get the mission arena finished) is moving towards a more sea experience, and for that you need the real thing.  You need guys intercepting kates, not tbms.  You need guys intercepting early bettys not ki-67s.  These 'replacement' planes are not gonna cut it for the new aces high, so I dont think I will have long to wait!~ ;)

Offline brady

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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2002, 05:09:31 PM »
Well, I hate to bust your bouble, but at 8 to 10 planes a year you might, unless your lucky and get the ones you want right away:)

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2002, 05:34:14 PM »
OK, let me now defend my choices:

A6M3: This was the IJN fighter that opposed the US in the context of most early Pacific CT setups.  It performs significantly better than does the A6M2, but significantly worse than does the A6M5.

B-25B: This would give an early war level bomber to the Allies that could actually be caught by the early war Axis fighters.  The Boston Mk III is simply too fast.  The B-25B would be most useful in Pacific setups.

B-29A: OK, this isn't really needed.  It was a major part of the end-game war in the Pacific though.

Beaufighter Mk 21: This adds an earlier ground attack aircraft for the RAF, one that saw service everywhere.

Bf109G-14: This closes a big gap in the Bf109 series as represented in AH, the performance gap between the 1943 Bf109G-6 and the late 1944 performance of the Bf109G-10.  The Bf109G-14 (or Bf109G-6/AS) was the main 109 that opposed the US during the big bomber operations of early-late 1944.

B6N2: Gives the Japanese an attack aircraft with a prayer of doing its job. It is a good foil for the TBM-3.

Cant Z.1007: Best Italian bomber used in significant numbers.  Gives greater variety to Med. Theatre setups. An S.M.79-II would also be OK, though it isn't as good.

F6F-3: Gives the USN a 1943 version of the F6F which I understand to be lower performing than the July, 1944 F6F-5 we have.  At the very least it shouldn't carry the massive bombload of the F6F-5.  If I'm mistaken, discont it from the list.

Fw190A-1: Gives a 1941 Fw190A so that the period in which the 190 was first introduced can be run with only Spitfire Vs to oppose it.  Looking at the Fw190A-4 it seems to me to be so similar to the Fw190A-5 that the Fw190A-5 can be subbed in for it painlessly.  We need an early Fw190.

G4M2: This would give the Japanese an early war bomber that the early war Allied fighters could actually catch and kill.  The Ki.67 is way too fast and well gunned for the early Allied fighters to deal with.
 
H8K2: This would give the Japanese a bomber with a actually useful war load.  This isn't needed for historical purposes, but rather for balance purposes.

He111H-3: The He111 was the most common bomber of the Luftwaffe.  We need a version at some point, but it isn't really needed as the Ju88A-4 can stand in for it.  Lower priority, but I still want the He111.

He177A-5: This would give the German a bomber with a actually useful defensive armament and a chance of getting the job done.  This isn't needed for historical purposes, but rather for balance purposes.  The He177A-5, Do217 or Ju188A-2 all fill this role.  I'd prefer the Ju188A-2, but the bonafide Luftwaffe fans seem to prefer the He177A-5.

I-16-18: This would give us a machine gun only I-16, which many of those used by Russia at the start were.  It isn't really needed, but might be easy for HTC to do at the same time as the I-16-24.

I-16-24: The I-16 is an important Russian fighter for the early war period.  The I-16-24 was the best version and would add greatly to the depth of the Russian planeset which is now dominated by the late war fighters.

Il-10: This would give the Russians a late war ground attack aircraft.  It saw some use against the Germans at the end of the war, and substantial use against the Japanese in 1945.

J2M3: The J2M3 would add a good mid-war fighter to the Japanese arsenal, something they lack now.

Ju87D-1: The Ju87 is a classic aircraft of WWII.  The D-1 version was used extensively in Russia and can sub for the BoB B-1 model painlessly.

Ju87G-1: The anti-tank version of the Ju87.  Not truly needed, but much requested.

Ju88G-7b: The best fighter version of the Ju88.  It would give the Germans a heavy fighter and get some more use out of the Ju88 polygons already present.

Ju188A-2: See He177A-5 text.  I prefer this to the He177A-5.

Ki.43-Ic: Gives the Japanese army an early war fighter, but armed with two 12.7mm machine guns rather than the two 7.7mm guns.  With the two 12.7mm guns it could actually be used.

Ki.43-IIb: Like with all war long fighters multiple versions of the Ki.43 are needed to represent its improving performance.  This is a mid-war Ki.43.

Ki.43-IIIb: Like with all war long fighters multiple versions of the Ki.43 are needed to represent its improving performance.  This is a late-war Ki.43.

Ki.44-IIb: This gives the Japanese army a usable mid-war interceptor.

Ki.61-Ia: This is an early version of the Ki.61.  It is needed so that the 1944 Ki.61-I-KAIc doesn't get subbed into early war setups.

Ki.61-IIb: This is the improved Ki.61 and would be useful for late-war setups.

Ki.84-Ia: This is the best Japanese fighter of the war, and unlike the N1K2-J it was produced in huge numbers.  It would be a huge balancing factor for Pac. Theatre setups set in 1944 or later.

Ki.100: A end war fighter, but supposedly a good one that can use much of the Ki.61's polygons.
 
Ki.102b: Gives the Japanese a ground attack aircraft, though only at the end.  The Ki.45 might work for the early war.

LaGG-3: An early war Russian fighter using much of the La-5FN's polygons.  Fills out the early war Russian set.

La-5: Not really needed, but would get rid of the need to sub in the significantly better La-5FN for some setups.
 
Me410B-2:  OK, not needed as the Bf110G-2 does this job, but the Me410 is a neat aircraft.
 
MiG-3: An early war Russian fighter that is unusually fast and lightly armed.  Fills out the early Russian planeset.
 
Mosquito NF.Mk II: The first Combatant Mossie.  Allows the Mosquito to be used in earlier setups, though without the bombs. Reuses the Mossie polygons.
 
Mosquito B.Mk IV: The 1942 Mossie bomber.  Reuses the Mossie polygons.

Mosquito B.Mk XVI: The best Mossie bomber, useful for late war setups. Reuses much of the Mossie polygons.

Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII: OK, not needed, but who doesn't want to fire a 57mm cannon?  Essentially a Mossie 6 with a different gun package and internal payload. Reuses the Mossie polygons.

Mosquito NF.Mk XXX: Adds a late war Mossie fighter with the performance it should have against the likes of the Ju88G-7b. Reuses much of the Mossie polygons.

P-38G: We need an early P-38.  I can never keep which is which straight.  I don't care if it is an F, G or H so long as it has early war performance.
 
P-39D: The P-39 was a widely used fighter.  The P-39Q would be good as well.

Pe-2FT: This is an early war version of the Pe-2.  We need more than one Pe-2 because a late war Pe-2 would rule the early war setups the way the Ki.67 does and an early war Pe-2 would be a joke in late war setups the way the Ju88A-4 is. I used to favor the Tu-2 over the Pe-2, but after doing more research I changed my mind.  the Pe-2 can be used to cover the entire war while using the same polygons whereas the Tu-2 is only late war.

Pe-2B: This is a mid-war Pe-2.
 
Pe-2D: This is a late-war Pe-2.  It lacks the bomb load of the Tu-2, but is faster.
 
Spitfire LF.Mk IX: This closes a big gap in the Spitfire representation in AH.  Currently we must use a 1942 Spitfire Mk IX for all setups from 1942 to the end, when in fact the Merlin 61 Spitfire was a rare player.  The Spitfire Mk VIII could be used instead of the LF.Mk IX.

TBD Devastator: Ok, this is spite.  If the Japanese must be saddled with the B5N in the early war, then the USN should be saddled with this turd.  It is both spite and balancing.

Tupolev SB-2: This would serve as an early war crappy Russian bomber, and by doing so fill out the early Russian set.

Wellington B.Mk IX: Or any other early version.  This would be useful as an early war Allied bomber that the Axis fighters could catch, yet has a usable war load.  The Boston Mk III is simply too fast.  This would be used in European Theatre setups.

Yak-1: This would help fill out the mid-war Russian planeset. This would use the Yak polygons.

Yak-7: This would help fill out the mid-war Russian planeset. This would use the Yak polygons.

Yak-9D: OK, I mis read on this one.  It isn't needed.
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Offline brady

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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2002, 05:53:48 PM »
OK karnak as always your listes are well thought out and dleavered, now pick 10....:) from it that are beast suited to our present neads, hard to do I know. Bear in mind dual usage n MA as an arguing point in the CT's favor, the more usefull in the MA the better.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2002, 05:56:40 PM by brady »

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2002, 06:07:10 PM »
Ouch.  Ok, lets see.

B-25B
G4M2 "Betty"
H8K2 "Emily"
I-16-24
Ju188A-2
Ki.43-IIb
Ki.61-Ia
Ki.84-Ia
LaGG-3
Pe-2B
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Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2002, 06:07:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by brady
OK karnak as always your listes are well thought out and dleavered, now pick 10....:) from it that are beast suited to our present neads, hard to do I know. Bear in mind dual usage n MA as an arguing point in the CT's favor, the more usefull in the MA the better.


LOL,
Asking Karnak to pick only 10 is like asking Hugh Heffner to get married and be faithful!

OK Karnak, pick 10, and put them in order!

eskimo

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2002, 06:25:57 PM »
OK, in order of most wanted to least wanted, heavily cut back list of 10:

Ki.84-Ia
H8K2 "Emily"
Pe-2B
I-16-24
B-25B
G4M2 "Betty"
Ju188A-2
Ki.43-IIb
Ki.61-Ia  
LaGG-3
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Offline brady

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« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2002, 07:15:51 PM »
WOW. I knew you could do  it m8t:)


 Ki.84-Ia : Great choice

H8K2 "Emily" : Great Choice

Pe-2B :Good, I would Prefer the TU-2 for MA utility  

I-16-24 : Great Choice

B-25B : Naw,imo a Z.1007 would be better, or a B26 varient

G4M2 "Betty" : tough call we have the Peggy granted it is fast for most all ealrly war set up's, would be nice to have the betty but maybe not right now, how about a Juddy or a Ki 102 instead.

Ju188A-2 : I do love this plane but is it realy neaded? What operational nitch is it to fill, if were going down this raod a He 177 is a better choice, a TU-2 instead hear and the pe-2 above or a Z 1007 for ether.

Ki.43-IIb : Oscar is important

Ki.61-Ia: what if we do an Oscar and a C.200 or a ki.61-1a and an Oscar.

LaGG-3: Nice but, it was a serious pos, good fill for early war though.

 I see you were objective to the extream Karnak leaving out your favorate planes, for the greater good.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2002, 08:33:47 PM »
Thanks for the compliment.

I think the RAF is probably the most well rounded of all the planesets right now, even more so than the USAAF and USN.  New RAF aircraft, while certainly desired by me, are at the bottom of my needed lists.

That said, I certainly like the Ki.84, H8K2 and Ju188A-2.

The reason I put the B-25B in there is because we need an Allied bomber for the early war that the Axis fighters can actually do something about.  The Boston Mk III is uninterceptable.

The G4M2 does the same in regards to the early Allied fighters trying to cope with the very fast, well gunned Ki.67.

The Ju188A-2 fills the balance hole for the German's as far as bombers go in any time after 1941.  The He177 may be better, but if so only marginally and I like the Ju188A-2 quite a lot.  Plus it would take less work for HTC to do than an He177.

I prefer the Pe-2 because it served throught the war.  It was, in its diferent versions, always competitive.  Because multiple versions can be done with minor graphical adjustments I think it is the better choice over the Tu-2.
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Offline brady

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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2002, 08:55:41 PM »
Well, those a good reasion's, in light of those I would say imo, that The best of both worlds for the Russians might be both the Pe-2 and the TU-2,while the TU-2 would rock hard in the MA, and thusly be the only reasion it would/or could whin out over the Pe-2.

 Personaly one of my favorate all time German planes is the JU 188, but if I had to hope for another late war German Buff it would be the He 177. I would rather see the Cant Z. 1007 howeaver than either of these, It would go a long way toward adding depth to mid and early war East front and Med/N Africa set up's.

 While the Betty and the B 25B would be interceptable, or at least more so than the Peggy/Boston, one neads to ask just how much impact do these planes have curently, and does it warent a compleatly new buff to remidy the marginal impact they do have on the game( CT set up wise), personaly I would shelve both in favor of more fighters or CV strike plaens, at least at present.

 But ya most all those would do wounders for the CT and SEA, and add some fun stuff for the MA.