Author Topic: Collision Model Inquiry  (Read 1759 times)

Offline aknimitz

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Collision Model Inquiry
« on: October 02, 2001, 09:24:00 PM »
Ok.  I just would like a few things explained/clarified, if possible.  I could have swore today I heard HT say something along the lines of the slower your connection, the more likely you will survive a collision.  Maybe I heard wrong, but I thought I heard this.  If this was said, why is this the case?

Second, why have collisions?  If we are being "realistic" and that was a "realistic" part of fighting, then it certainly seems fair to have friendly collisions on as well.  Perhaps there would be a little less steal killing going on then.

So, I am sure there is a good reason why we have enemy collisions on, but could someone tell me?  

What sparked my frustration is I am flying along fighting a 109 and his engine quits.  I was in a vert scissor and came back down and obviously he was able to come up quicker (albeit briefly).  We collided, and of course, I die.  I ALWAYS, literally ALWAYS lose on collisions.  Then, HE gets the kill!  I put around 50 rounds into him, he none into me.  

In any event, just curious about the collision model.

Nim

Offline moose

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2001, 09:43:00 PM »
i think that if you see the collison on your FE, you die.

a faster connection will collide before a slower connect will. slower connects usually have the planes like 100-200 yards from where they really are?
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Offline streakeagle

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2001, 09:46:00 PM »
Why can't the server get a message from the FE indicating the collsion and mirror the results to the other server? A little laggy, but better than the one-sided events that usually happen with the current system. Is it any more laggy than sending bullet collsion information? After all, your aircraft is just one big slow guided bullet.
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Offline Boozer

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2001, 10:02:00 PM »
*So, I am sure there is a good reason why we have enemy collisions on, but could someone tell me?*

  So the HO dweebs pay for their lack of ACM

Offline Wotan

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2001, 10:19:00 PM »
I know fer a fact the lower the ping quicker ya die in colision. I have never survived 1. I ping 30 to at highest 60.

Others have said that as well but get the old "shut whiner treatment".

Also there seems sometimes to be a delay when I get good pings on certain people. Especially with gvs. I'll put my bomb dead on and as I pull out and away then the gv blows up. This doesn't happen all the time so I assumed it was bad connection on the other guy. Sometimes they blow right up.

As for friendly colisions being off I understand that or you would die everytime 2 guys spawned at the same time same spawn point or on the rearm pad.........

Offline Blue Mako

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2001, 10:38:00 PM »
Full discussion in this (and many other) threads.  http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=001293

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[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: Blue Mako ]

Offline whirl

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2001, 11:04:00 PM »
this would explain why i have such a terrible time getting my rounds to hit--this has to be fixed.  i have virtually no delay or lag.  1.4 meg connect.  i'm constantly maneuvering for kills only to not getem cause i'm seeing where he is supposed to be, even thoughhe's not gotten there yet. heh.. my ammo is hitting empty space because of anothers laggy front end.  there has to be a way to balance this out so faster connects can deal with slower connects.  or raise the min requirement to dsl connects<BFG>

Offline Blue Mako

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2001, 11:26:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by whirl:
this would explain why i have such a terrible time getting my rounds to hit--this has to be fixed.  i have virtually no delay or lag.  1.4 meg connect.  i'm constantly maneuvering for kills only to not getem cause i'm seeing where he is supposed to be, even thoughhe's not gotten there yet. heh.. my ammo is hitting empty space because of anothers laggy front end.  there has to be a way to balance this out so faster connects can deal with slower connects.  or raise the min requirement to dsl connects<BFG>

Sorry whirl, it doesn't work like that.  You shoot at people on your front end (FE).  If you hit them, your FE sends a hit packet to the server and then the con getting hit is sent the hit packets by the server.

If you are not hitting people I'm afraid it means you aren't a very good shot  ;) <G>

If you are seeing hits on your end and the con is not getting damage, you may have other "rubber bullet" problems...  In any case, hit calcs are done on the shooters FE...

Offline SKurj

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2001, 11:56:00 PM »
If collisions were mirrored so that both players took damage then ramming would raise its ugly head in the game, we can't have that.  I am on a fairly decent connect (cable) and I too quite often suffer the worst in a collision.
 Just tonight Shane and I were in a vertical scissor both hovering on the edge of stall when we collided yet he took no damage and down I went a flaming wreck.
Friendly collisions bad idea, even if they only became active once a plane's wheels left the ground, we would have to deal with friendly rammers... or at least the accusations.
We need enemy collisions, and as far as i am concerned, for the time being anyways, I think HTC have the best solution.  It does happen where the 2 players involved do go down, but lately it seems to be a rare occurence, its one or the other mostly.  I can accept this, because I've seen some of the alternatives...


SKurj

Offline whirl

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2001, 02:52:00 AM »
i guess thats the point mako, i snap for a point blank range canopy shot, that should kill anyone, and nothing happens.....  there's a problem somewhere and it needs to be fixed.

Offline FDutchmn

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2001, 03:38:00 AM »
Hiya!

First off... on friendly collisions...

I think we wouldn't be able to take off or land decently with the way the game is played right now... think about it, ya get on a zeke and go to the run way and a Lanc or B17 mows you down   :D

I am not the designer of this game so I am only speculating... but I think that it is not just realism that we are dealing with.  Playability also counts.  :)

I don't know about survivability in a collision due to connection speed.  I have thought that there was some sort of algorithm in the program to decide who the winner is.  I have also wondered how this was programed.  Like when I was following a spit in a scissors, I was pinging away on the guy and his wings were about to fall off.  Except, he banks right into me and we collide.  He won the battle according to the message.  

Flying Dutchman

Offline ~Caligula~

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2001, 04:05:00 AM »
Collisions in AH suck.
If You collide both should take damage...period

Offline Apar1

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2001, 04:07:00 AM »
I have a cable connection with good connection to HTC servers and I'm always the one to die during collision while my opponent has'nt got a scratch. When I asked the opponent whether he saw the collision as well I often get the answer that he didn't collide (he didn't experience a collision), go figure. Now that is not a good thing for playability at all.

Offline FDutchmn

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2001, 04:25:00 AM »
oops i think i was bit unclear about the word "playability".  I meant that for Friendly Collisions on this thread, not for collision survivability.

Flying Dutchman

Offline fats

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Collision Model Inquiry
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2001, 06:00:00 AM »
Shooting:

Your FE detects the hits on an object, the location you must shoot at corresponds with what you see on your screen. Once there is hit, a packet is sent indicating such event, and after awhile you get a return packet telling what was destroyed if anything from the object. Then you will see wings fall off or the object explode, albeit with a little delay.


Collisions:

Your FE detects wether you have collided with anything, leave out ( enemy or friendly ) bullets, bombs and rockets ( ? ) since that is done by others' FEs. This implementation makes the collision parameters consistent. When you see ( your FE detects ) your self flying into something, you die/get damaged.
Why many of you think you 'lose' every collision is that you have no idea when the other guy collides with you most of the time.

Imagine a common HO, where you both come in guns blazing and connect a few hits. Then you switch to six view and see the enemy disintegrate mid air, and get the feeling that burst you got in must have hit fuel or something important. Have you ever considered that he just _collided_ with you and your hits in fact did no mortal damage?

To anyone smocking crack and playing AH... err thinking that _both_ should die/get damaged if either FE detect a collision. Imagine the previous sittuation again. You would have now died without any reason. Also because of varying pings ( positions ) there would be no consistency when you would collide and when you wouldn't. At times you could fly just 10yds from an other plane, but  the next time it might be 200yds and you still die from a collision for no obvious reason. This implementation would occur in most frequent collisions, so think carefully what you wish for. If you think you die too often in a collision now...

If you say that both die/get damaged when _both FEs_ detect a collision you still fail to grasp how varying pings would affect the sittuation. Collisions would be less frequent, but they would still happen under inconsistent circumstances. It would mean at times you can fly straight through the other player and at times you couldn't. Most would agree this isn't very good sollution either?


Ping time and collisions:

player A has ping 10.
player B has ping 400.

A and B start flying towards each other in a HO. At the last second B pulls up, A doesn't because he figures B is chicken and he can plough through. On B's FE B misses A slightly. On A's FE B is still flying _straight_, because the fact that B has pulled up comes 410 units later, and A now collides with B. Before you say A died unjustly for having a better connection, remember A did very well see what was about to happen. A didn't do enough to avoid the collision and died/got damaged justly.

A and B fly in a tail chase. A is chasing B's   plane. Both fly perfectly straight. A will again die in this sittuation before B. But again it's not that he was penalized for better connection. A saw that range indicator to go to 5, or how ever long his plane's nose is, before receiving damage and would have been able to at least maneuver at some point prior to that.


The point being, with the current implementation when you die in a collision it is your own fault. The other guy didn't ram you or anything, because that is simply put quite impossible. Ramming someone _on purpose_ requires you to know both player's ping, and then be able to calculate in your head how to maneuver for your aircraft to hit on the other player's FE.


// fats