Author Topic: just an idea  (Read 1061 times)

Offline SunKing

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just an idea
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2002, 06:50:32 PM »
MHO to Karnak's post.

Well if you know that you are paying $15 a month for a simulation ,and a cetain destroyed factory limits your fav plane.. so be it.


Unless this is truely a quake game now.

Online Shane

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« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2002, 07:04:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunKing
Well if you know that you are paying $15 a month for a simulation ,and a cetain destroyed factory limits your fav plane.. so be it.


:rolleyes:

maybe it's supposed to be a *simulation* of A...I...R...C...O...M...B...A ...T....

let's see, maybe the name of the game gives it away, let's break it down...

Aces... someone skilled at flying and shooting down other planes
High... above ground...not at ground level...boozed/drugged up

hmmm what ya think?  it's not a "war simulation" per se, it's an air combat, not flight, simulation, some will call it a game - it's that, too.


people who make the game *all* about the hamstard wheel of capture the flag, need to refocus a bit, maybe? there are many aspects to this game, i think the primary appeal is the ability to harken back to the bygone age of prop plane combat, this in general means fighters, altho' there are many enamored with bombers, ships, gv's and what have you, some of which have been put in this game to spice up the already varied planeset. nothing wrong with giving bombers targets that earn them points, but i don't like the idea of them being able to dramatically affect AIR COMBAT - the "Aces High" aspect.

the capture the flag aspect is there to provide a little focus for the main goal of air combat, not the other way around.

hmmmm?

there's always ww2OL for you "war simmers."

just give bombers nice big targets that earn them bomber rank and points, but doesn't impact *my* ability to fly whatever i want, when and wherever i want in the MA.

enjoy the online AI comba.... errrr mission arena.

:)
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Offline SunKing

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« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2002, 09:08:43 PM »
Names a name. Obviously having 'Aces High' isn't the creators only goal or he wouldn't have implimented the ground war or the hours spent on creating a strat system.

     You fellows that only want instant furballs crack me up. You get all upset over what the simmers want in this game yet you shove it down their throats about how you want this game and how they should fly ie: IL2 with 100+ players furball madness.
   
     I enjoy both types of play and I'm sure the majority does to, or we wouldn't have senarios, historic squads ect.
   
     Shane your're a good laugh. Have fun worrying about those stats and only flying the la7 and Stang. God forbid you fly something that isn't the fastest.

Online Shane

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« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2002, 10:12:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunKing
Shane your're a good laugh. Have fun worrying about those stats and only flying the la7 and Stang. God forbid you fly something that isn't the fastest.


i do play both ways. i avoid big furballs like the plague, tho' fps issues.  did my time in other planes. i fly what i like an dthat best suits my style.  what lemming squad are you from again?  ever fly into a sector without any other greenies around, away from your own ack safety net?

come show me how to fly in the DA sometime.

and, pssst... i could care less for stats as any sort of donut tape.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline SunKing

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« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2002, 12:49:15 AM »
"and, pssst... i could care less for stats as any sort of donut tape"

Sure guy, any player under ranked under 200 flying all score
categorizes is constantly watching their Rank. You fool no one.

"what lemming squad are you from again? ever fly into a sector without any other greenies around, away from your own ack safety net? "

Very sad attack, you know what squad I am in and you know what respected players are in it, stick to arguing the new players in the MA, its what you do best.

Online Shane

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« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2002, 01:24:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunKing
"and, pssst... i could care less for stats as any sort of donut tape"
Sure guy, any player under ranked under 200 flying all score
categorizes is constantly watching their Rank. You fool no one.

"what lemming squad are you from again? ever fly into a sector without any other greenies around, away from your own ack safety net? "

Very sad attack, you know what squad I am in and you know what respected players are in it, stick to arguing the new players in the MA, its what you do best.


actually i only realized it when i check your info on the side bar. 332nd mongrels... if they're red, they chew toys.  :)

you have no idea why i rank where i do, do you? or why i even bother - trust me, you'd not get it.  

nor might you realize how little effort it takes to get in the top 200 - it's not hard. few buffs runs, few goofiness with gv's , toss in a base capture or 2 via goon or m3...

not hard to jabo well, either.

so maybe we can infer that since *you* don't seem to care about stats, then maybe you're not pulling your weight in the MA?  you one of them furballer dweebs who does nothing but fly fighters???


shrug.... rank means nothing except ability to control the cv... certain stats are fun to throw out and bait stat weenies with, tho'

:)

i take it you have an inside line on HTC's business strategy and stuff? not saying i do, but i am saying this game is primarily focused (and was designed) around "air combat."  might that change, neh, not too much. the MA in no way simulates "war".  it's merely a game with various aspects, some more relevant than others.

you wanna call it "quake." i'll call it a "hamstard wheel of capture the flag."
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Sakai

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just an idea
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2002, 06:51:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunKing
Very sad attack, you know what squad I am in and you know what respected players are in it, stick to arguing the new players in the MA, its what you do best.


If I'm not mistaken, Shane is commonly seen in the CT flying whatever planes are there, P40Bs, etc.  He doesn't run from any fight that I have seen, under any circumstance.  He may have, but I have never seen it.  

He's a good stick, got to give him that.

Sakai
"The P-40B does all the work for you . . ."

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2002, 08:31:35 AM »
muck... I don't think you get it.. no.. I know you don't get it.   Look at the numbers during nitetime..  nite reduces the fitghing and players... look at the pizza map... it reduces fites and player base... look at the ct... it reduces choice and player base to allmost nothing.  

Now... you want to implement more things that will affect fitghters (the vast majority of the player base) by the allmost skilless efforts (immunity to boredom is not a skill) of a very few players.. Why?   so that the very few players who lack the skills or have some special interest... can be noticed?   can be part of the picture?  diversity?  more like affermative action.   In this case tho the backlash hits HTC in the pocket book.

The "missun" arena is the solution... maybe.. I will not miss the 10 or so "missun dudz" and the core of fluffers who will leave to go there.   I believe that it will, like the ct, be very popular for a month, more or less and then have about the same numbers as the ct and the same makup of malcontent players who feel that they have special skills that are not being showcased in the MA.  I have allways been thankful, although admittedly a little gleefuly, that the ct exists to siphon off the worst of the 'axis vs allied' no choice crowd.   Hopefull, the missun arena will siphon off the worst of the gangbangers and capture the flag types.
lazs
lazs

Offline Fariz

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just an idea
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2002, 08:37:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sakai
If I'm not mistaken, Shane is commonly seen in the CT flying whatever planes are there, P40Bs, etc.  He doesn't run from any fight that I have seen, under any circumstance.  He may have, but I have never seen it.  

He's a good stick, got to give him that.

Sakai


He is.

Online Shane

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« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2002, 08:49:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sakai
He doesn't run from any fight that I have seen, under any circumstance.  He may have, but I have never seen it.  
Sakai


if i have a few kills and no/low ammo i miiiiigghhhhht start bugging out for home, if it's close enough, and no one left to shoot down or 2-3 coming my way.

then again i'm just as likely to stick around and see about working in some auger kills if possible.

but yeah, in general i'm looking *for* a fight, regardless of the situation, not looking to avoid one, especially when it's 1 v1 or 1 v 2... 3+ and i start to :rolleyes:  followed by :mad:

:D
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798
Truth doesn't need exaggeration.

Offline Shiva

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just an idea
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2002, 09:27:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by texace
As wacky as it sounds, it adds raelism as well. Planes didn't magically appear for you to use...they had the be built and shipped. If the planes couldn't be built, the planes couldn't be shipped. So let's say a Spit factory was destroyed, but everyone from the country/field kept using and destroying Spitfires. Eventually the supply of planes would run out and the Spits couldn't be used until the factory cuold be rebuilt. Am I right, Shiva?


Not quite. Destroying a single site, no matter how big, shouldn't cut off supplies of a plane type absolutely. Look at how Germany dispersed its aircraft production during the war so that, despite the Allied bombing effort, aircraft production was higher at the end of the war than it was at the beginning. And there are some fundamental problems with the way that the 'game' of AH works that would prevent strategic effects from being implemented in a reasonable way. For example, if you capture an airfield behind the enemy 'front line', there is no reasonable way to expect that, in reality, you would be able to get enough fuel and ordnance into the base to be able to support full-on air ops there -- but AH runs the supplies in invisibly.

Also, AH doesn't model the shipment of supplies, except for the truck/rail convoys that rebuild fields and strat targets -- and implementing a functional, destroyable supply model would be a real pain, both for HTC to get it set up and working, and for terrain designers, who would have to build supply routes for every possible combination of fields a country might have. Not a practical solution

So what I suggested uses destroying a factory as a simulation of destroying both production and delivery. When production is at full capacity, you're able to conduct air ops as recklessly as you choose -- launch fifty Spit9s at once, get them vulched on the apron, and do it again and again until the vulchers run out of ammo, and there will still be Spit9s available. But when a factory is destroyed, the production/delivery of a plane type has been disrupted; the airfields only get a slow resupply of that plane type, so using them up too fast can run you out of that plane type at a field.

With a limited number of destroyable vehicle factories, terrain designers can control how much disruption that strategic bombing can cause; with some seventy different planes, vehicles, and boats in the set, having, say, five factories as strat targets isn't going to allow a country to close off fighter ops in an enemy country by destroying all the factories. And the random selection of which one gets impaired makes it more of a crapshoot for the attacker if they're trying for a specific result -- having availability of Me262s or Ar234s drop to 1 per minute after the first 5/10/15 (depending on field size) isn't going to limit a country much, but having Osties go on allocation would really put a crimp in the eternal-respawn GV defense.

Now, it's possible that a country could destroy five factory sites, hit the jackpot, and get, a single aircraft's production/delivery whacked back to one plane every five minutes per field, which would cause huge amounts of hate and discontent from the country that got shafted if it were a popular plane like the P-51D, but the odds against that are infinitesimal -- with seventy different vehicles, the odds of just double-tapping one vehicle type with all five factories destroyed is about 1 in 500, and about 1 in 5,000 with only two factories destroyed.

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2002, 01:18:34 PM »
shiva you just sughgested exaactly what i meant i just didnt clarifly it. (im glad SOMEONE is staying ON topic) i meant there would be about 3 factory sites supplying about 4 different planes each (the further away the supply site is the longer it will take for planes to get there) each facotry site having one facotry per plane it makes.

Offline vorticon

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« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2002, 03:41:31 PM »
BUMP

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2002, 08:16:37 AM »
so... what you advocates are saying is that some guy who plays for an hour or two and has a life.... will log on and for no reason that he had any part in.... be not able to fly say a spit 9 or a la7 yet the enemy skies will be full of em... and...

all this because some no life no skill mouse weilder manged to stay alloft the required amount of hours it took to game a few bombs on some ai building somewhere?   Dozens of skilled players effected by the patient but unskilled efforts of one?  How is this good gameplay?   the country with the largest numbers now has the best planes?   good idea to switch out of a losing country eh?

this seems like a perfect idea for the "missun" arena..  everquest in fluffs... Pink age of camelot.  afermative action in gaming.


I guess what I am saying is that we are talking about two different things or, more like, two different angles on the same thing... you are talking about a strat element that might be fun for a few players, for the everquest, live online set..  I am talking about the results of that strat.    The only results you are interested in is to have something for the unskilled to do to make em feel necessary.   I am looking at the overall results and how it affects the majority.   sorta like nitetime but worse.   Imagine if we had nite for 2 hours at a time when the sunshine factory was bombed and you would have abpout the same results as what you are asking for.    

you are not asking to ruin the fun of the 202 or 109f guys... just the fun of the guys who fly the popular planes... 80% or so..

lazs
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« Last Edit: November 22, 2002, 08:24:33 AM by lazs2 »

Offline Shiva

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« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2002, 12:07:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so... what you advocates are saying is that some guy who plays for an hour or two and has a life.... will log on and for no reason that he had any part in.... be not able to fly say a spit 9 or a la7 yet the enemy skies will be full of em... and...

all this because some no life no skill mouse weilder manged to stay alloft the required amount of hours it took to game a few bombs on some ai building somewhere?   Dozens of skilled players effected by the patient but unskilled efforts of one?  How is this good gameplay?   the country with the largest numbers now has the best planes?   good idea to switch out of a losing country eh?


All this because someone took the time to up a bomber group -- or, given what I'm hearing about the new strat targets that are coming, several people took the time to up bomber groups -- and flattened a fighter factory. AND the random selection of an aircraft type happened to pick the particular aircraft that this one-hour pilot wanted to fly to disrupt supply of, AND this one-hour pilot tries to take off from a field that is either a) hugely capped by the enemy, so that the defenders have been upping the affected airplane and getting vulched faster than the resupply, or b) was used as the launch base for some mission that needed so many of the affected airplane that it used up all the ready supply. So as a result, this one-hour pilot has to wait a minute for the supply chain to deliver another plane of that type.

Lazs, I'm surprised that your nose isn't crushed flat to your face, the way you jump to conclusions. It's clear that you didn't even bother to read what I wrote past the point where I talk about "destroying both supply and delivery", and assume that what I'm describing cuts off availability of planes at a field. What I described was a mechanism that slows delivery of aircraft, so that if the pilots in a country that lost its factory choose to expend planes rapidly, they won't be able to crash/ditch/bail and instantly re-up forever.

My suggestion would have destruction of a factory cause one ride -- fighter, bomber, vehicle, or boat -- selected randomly to become less available; the factory is producing fewer, or the transport to the fields is slower, so the supply of them isn't infinite all the time; use them up too fast and you can run out until the next one arrives. The bomber pilots don't know, when they destroy a factory, which ride they're going to disrupt. If they're lucky, they'll get P-51Ds or Typhoons or the like; if they're unlucky, they'll get Ar-234s or LVT(A)4s or Bostons. But the country that lost the factory isn't going to see any effect unless there is a big drain on that plane. Each field has a 'ready supply' depending on the field size, and unless the pilots are using the plane faster than they're being replaced -- and a resupply rate of one plane per minute per field (not for the whole country), it's going to take a dedicated effort on the part of your countrymen to exhaust a plane's supply to keep you from getting your precious ride for more than a minute or two. To run out of a plane, it takes two things to happen -- the enemy has to destroy an aircraft factory, and your countrymates have to burn through the supply of the affected plane at the field you're at faster than the resupply ships in new ones.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2002, 12:15:38 PM by Shiva »