Early-war fighters and the Pizza map

[Widewing]

I was never a big fan of the Pizza map, and this tour has soured me further. I decided that I would confine myself to flying only early-war fighters this tour. Essentially, nothing not already in service by December 7, 1941will be flown. I allow for exceptions in the case of squad nights where the aircraft are selected monthly, or for emergencies as they arise (in which case I may grab an FM-2 or SpitV). Generally though, I’ve stuck to the basic premise.

What I realized early in the tour is that the Pizza map is decidedly unfriendly to early-war aircraft. Only the Hurricane IIC has any jabo capability. All that the P-40E can carry is a single 500 lb bomb. Worse, the long distances between fields’ results in frequently having to carry drop tanks for both the Hurri and the P-40.

Indeed, the relatively low speeds of these fighters means that it takes a long time to get anywhere, exacerbated by having to haul external tankage.

Frequently, when you do finally arrive, the fight you were expecting, hoping for, is non-existent, usually because the field has already been beat down and capped. Or, because the enemy simply landed when no opposition was nearby. This really porks one’s K/T and K/S. This is especially troublesome when it happens early in the tour, as you can never really make it up. Even carrier ops are affected, with nearby enemy fields often being 4-6k above sea level. This makes it especially difficult to keep the CVs alive.

It sure would be nice to some air bases closer together and not so many damned high altitude fields. Some of these early-war aircraft lack two-stage, two-speed superchargers, and are not happy with 11k high fields.

Here’s a weird, but unrelated oddity: Flying Hurricanes, I’ve been forced to ditch a few times due to radiator damage. On two occasions this occurred on the Baltic map. I ditched on the friendly side of the strait opposite A41, just inland from the beach (being as far as I could extend the glide). Both times I got the “you have been captured” message. Yet, there are no enemy bases on that side of the strait! What gives? Who the hell could capture me?! Apparently, the game does not see open water as a physical obstacle to the enemy’s movement. That should be corrected.

My regards,

Widewing

[lazs2]

wide... yup... I have allways said that the bigger maps are very unfriendly to early war planes as are fields that are too far apart.  but.....

The pizza map could be the most early war friendly map of them all.... just carve about a quarter or so of it off and make that an early war "area" within the arena... early war planes only... 50K mountain range to seperate it...  make the fields closer together in the "early war area" and make for seperate resets... "the ***** have won the early war reset" or.... "the ***** have won the arena reset".   Still can't figiure out why they don't do that... allmost thought I had Dale convinced it would work at the con..
lazs

[Turbot]

Originally posted by Widewing
I was never a big fan of the Pizza map, and this tour has soured me further. I decided that I would confine myself to flying only early-war fighters this tour. Essentially, nothing not already in service by December 7, 1941will be flown. I allow for exceptions in the case of squad nights where the aircraft are selected monthly, or for emergencies as they arise (in which case I may grab an FM-2 or SpitV). Generally though, I’ve stuck to the basic premise.

By the early part of 1941, German squadrons were receiving the Bf 109F so don't forget to fly it too - it is quite capable.

P.S. (The General Motors FM-2 was the most numerous Wildcat variant produced. From mid-1943 to the end of the war, General Motors built 4,777 FM-2s -- nearly 70% of all Wildcats produced.   As you correctly note it is not an early war plane, but I think alot of people don't know that.)

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by lazs2

The pizza map could be the most early war friendly map of them all.... just carve about a quarter or so of it off and make that an early war "area" within the arena... early war planes only... 50K mountain range to seperate it...

 Still can't figiure out why they don't do that... allmost thought I had Dale convinced it would work at the con..
lazs

Lazs, when constructing the pizza map, one of the ideas we tried to sell HTC was an area in the interior surrounded by very high mountains.  Although our goal wasn't an early aircraft area (the goal was an isolated furball area), it took Hitech about 5 microseconds to say "No!"

So, if he won't agree to an area that contains furballing, I don't see him admitting an area for special airplanes.

This situation reminds me a lot of legislation.  First you design a law.  As it meanders through congress, lobbyists keep wandering into the area and saying "Wait! Wait!  Look what this will do to the a) tobacco farmers, b) milk producers, c) dog catchers, d) sheep herders association or e) whatever your favorite special interest group happens to be.

Of course, congress being congress, listens to the special interest groups and passes ridiculous laws which actually harm the general population all because they cater to the special interests groups --- MONEY.

In Aces High, there aren't many special interest groups.  Well, there is the craggenmore group - you can always get Hitech's attention that way  - but it only makes him mellow, not fediddleing nuts.

Widewing, Lazs, why not do what Leviathan does?  Get in your favorite antique ride and move it to a densely populated area.  Challenge (by your presence) guys to kill you.

curly

[Angus]

I remember putting up an idea about early war "zones" on the BB a long time ago. I favour the idea, and a map in size of the pizza map makes it a lot easier.
Rather than having it reset seperatly, it could be quite distant, say 3 or 4 sectors or so, - enough to make it unpractical for late war monsters to fly all the way. A very interesting idea, but unfotunately not so favoured by HTC.
Well, we have the CT, and SEA, and then comes the Mission arena.....

[DoctorYO]

I keep noticing P40b webcharts say it can do over a 2k climb....  I tried all speeds to attain that climb rate and the best i can muster is 1.7-1.9k per minute.

If this aircraft would actually do what the charts say i would fly it....

Sorry to hijack but ive noticed you (widewing) in the p40 a few times and was wondering if you have had any success in getting a climb rate over 2k - min in the p40b...

I would fly the p40b just for its shark teeth.. but its the worst proforming aircraft in the game and it doesn't even live up to the stats on the webpage making it even worse.

Any help on climbrate would be appreciated.




2 cents


DoctorYo

[lazs2]

curly... I don't think a furball area and an early war area are comparable...  We (HTC) have all these early war planes... we have all these players who like em and even more who would like to try em once in a while without being molested by late war birds.   HTC trys everything to make early war planes useful or... at least... to make the extreme late war planes rare..  The perk idea is ok for making the mid war planes viable but nothing at all has been done for early war planes.

I also believe that there is a difference between carving off the bottom quarter of the map and seperating it by 50k mountains and allowing early war only planes there with a seperat rest and... circling a few fields for a "furball" area.  

Ohh.. I can't imagine anyone bothering to "hunt" me.. I'm really not that good but... of the few who would... they don't fight my fight.  They wouldn't come down to fight me and I won't bother to go up to them.  

As for the FM2... yep, mid war but.... It would make a great substitute for the 1940 f4f-3..  The very early f4f performed allmost identicaly to the fm2 maybe even a little better but had less armor and did not have self sealing tanks.   I belive these things were retrofitted on all -3's tho with very little performance loss..   most pilots liked the -3 much better than the -4.
lazs

[Shane]

Originally posted by Widewing
Here’s a weird, but unrelated oddity: Flying Hurricanes, I’ve been forced to ditch a few times due to radiator damage. On two occasions this occurred on the Baltic map. I ditched on the friendly side of the strait opposite A41, just inland from the beach (being as far as I could extend the glide). Both times I got the “you have been captured” message. Yet, there are no enemy bases on that side of the strait! What gives? Who the hell could capture me?! My regards, Widewing

you must've pissed off the natives! what have we told you about rustling local sheep!?!

[NUTTZ]

I don't think people realize even thou the pizza map is 4 times the size of the other maps it also has 4 times the fields. The field placement from each other is the same distance apart in "pizza" map as in ALL the maps.

NUTTZ