Author Topic: Article about 391FS in Afghanistan  (Read 232 times)

Offline eagl

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« on: November 22, 2002, 04:12:26 PM »
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/11/bowden.htm

It's fairly well written, although the author gets a few things wrong.  The very first paragraph is roadkill as a Fighter Pilot doesn't think he is god when flying in combat, and labelling an F-15E crew as a couple of technicians really is only half of the story.  The other half of course is that all the "long lost" skills are still practiced for when the technology fails or things go wrong.

The F-15E's strafing Robert's Ridge is a clear example, but that was a different squadron so the author didn't get that story into this article.

It's also a bit (heh) biased towards the F-15E as the wonder-weapon, but realize that the squadron he wrote about is right down the street from a block-50 F-16 squadron so there's both first-hand honest truth and friendly rivalry at work there.

edit:  I've flown with some of the guys in the article, and while Chaz is a little short to be looking guys in the eye before every sortie, most of the stories ring true to what I know about these guys.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2002, 04:15:28 PM by eagl »
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline AKDejaVu

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2002, 05:18:30 PM »
I've often heard that last word most often found on black box recordings after a crash is "shit".  It never really occured to me that this might be false.  It still doesn't.

to those that put themselves in harmes way flying and fighting for people who seldomely appreciate them.

AKDejaVu
P.S.  I hate you

Offline Paxil

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2002, 08:08:27 PM »
That was an awesome article... wow.... thanks for sharing.

Offline OIO

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2002, 08:19:00 PM »
"cruised way up to somewhere in the "Bozosphere" (meaning "way the diddly up there"); "


YESSSS!!! Alt monkey space baby! cant wait to use this one in the MA.. and get muted hehehe.

Offline Reschke

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2002, 09:54:14 PM »
Yep I can't wait to call in a high alt buff raid as being up there in the "Bozosphere". That should get a hell of a laugh in the game.
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Offline Pongo

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2002, 12:36:30 AM »
Hi alt buff raids are in the "dweebisphere"

Offline -ammo-

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2002, 01:25:50 AM »
Fourth but First!! 334 Fighting Eagles!  assigned 1993-2001
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline senna

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2002, 03:01:57 AM »
Shud leave Mr Eagle alone cause he can drop a 500 pounder on your house. If your a homeless looser, he can save the bomb and just straff you while your alseep.

Offline Thunder9

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2002, 03:58:55 AM »
>> biased towards the F-15E as the wonder-weapon, but realize that the squadron he wrote about is right down the street from a block-50 F-16 squadron

Being an AF Reserve maintenance troop that spent a month at Al Jaber last fall, I can tell you that the 366 Wing from Mountain Home did NOT take their Block-50 F-16's with them. Rather it was our Block-30 F-16 from the 301 FW that flew alongside the F-15E's, and were most likely the same jets vaguely referenced in the article. After we left in Mid-December, the 354 FW from Eielson AFB, AK came in to replace us.

Some field mods accomplished at Al Jaber made the 457 FS F-16's (arguably, or course), the most capable fighter aircraft in the USAF inventory, at that time. If you have doubts about this, follow up with the commander of the 332 AEW at Al Jaber. He nearly had our unit held over there, due to the jobs that the people & planes from the 301 FW did over there.  :D

All rivalries aside though, it was similar for all the jet-jocks over there, and a pretty busy time for us maintaining & supporting the jets
« Last Edit: November 23, 2002, 04:01:21 AM by Thunder9 »

Offline -ammo-

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2002, 08:50:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thunder9
>> biased towards the F-15E as the wonder-weapon, but realize that the squadron he wrote about is right down the street from a block-50 F-16 squadron

Being an AF Reserve maintenance troop that spent a month at Al Jaber last fall, I can tell you that the 366 Wing from Mountain Home did NOT take their Block-50 F-16's with them. Rather it was our Block-30 F-16 from the 301 FW that flew alongside the F-15E's, and were most likely the same jets vaguely referenced in the article. After we left in Mid-December, the 354 FW from Eielson AFB, AK came in to replace us.

Some field mods accomplished at Al Jaber made the 457 FS F-16's (arguably, or course), the most capable fighter aircraft in the USAF inventory, at that time. If you have doubts about this, follow up with the commander of the 332 AEW at Al Jaber. He nearly had our unit held over there, due to the jobs that the people & planes from the 301 FW did over there.  :D


All rivalries aside though, it was similar for all the jet-jocks over there, and a pretty busy time for us maintaining & supporting the jets

The reason they took their strike eagles was to fulfill CENTCOM's requirement.  They want the extensive precision strike capability that it provides. IE, AGM-130, GBU-24, GBU-15, GBU-28, etc..  The F-16 cannot carry  some of those weapons.
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline eagl

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2002, 09:58:13 AM »
There were some mods made to the F-15E too...  I read General Dynamics' public brag pamphlet about what they did to the vipers during Afghanistan and except for the targeting pod some reserve/guard units were using which is better than LANTIRN, the rest of the mods just brought the F-16 INS up to the same level as the F-15E INS.  Then toss in data link for everyone...  :)

Although I can't comment on why that targeting pod is so amazing, the info has been published in several places.  I THINK the capabilities Thunder is talking about is related to the targeting pod because it is the result of decades of feedback on what pilots want/need in a targeting pod.

I'll share one story I got from an unclassified PR document General Dynamics sent out.  A few Reserve vipers were flying around in a hunter-killer role with NVG's and their newfangled targeting pod, and at one point they thought they could see some glimmer of light from a valley.  They could only see it from one angle though, and it was very faint.  Long story short, they put 500 lb LGBs into a small camp consisting of 2 camoflaged canvas tents, one covering the bad guys and a single candle or flashlight, the other one covering an artillery piece.  They were waiting to ambush anyone who popped up in the area.  There was almost zero thermal signature and they targeted it off of about a foot of barrel sticking out the end of the canvas and a single small light THROUGH CANVAS.  That's badass regardless of whether you're in an F-16 or F-15E.  Some of the other exploits of this F-16 unit were even better and they have multiple "saves" of ground forces credited to them, but I don't have the details or the pamphlet with me.

My comment about the block 50s was to point out that the 391st knows the capabilities of the block 50 very well because the 389th is also at Mt Home with the 391st and they train together on a regular basis.  The F-16 mods were pretty significant, but we still have to face some facts:

The F-16 can't:
Loiter as long
Carry as many bombs, both iron or precision guided
Carry the GBU 15
Carry the GBU 28
Carry the AGM-130
Carry the data link pod required for GBU-15/130
Carry as much of an Air to Air load while carrying bombs and tanks
Although it wasn't needed in Afghanistan, the F-16 also still can't safely do low-altitude night/all weather PGM deliveries.

The F-16 is a great aircraft, but it is quite literally half the airplane an F-15E is.  That's great in a dogfight, crummy when you gotta blow up stuff on the ground or loiter awhile.  We all really need the new targeting pod because it is a very large step forward, but that's not specific to any one aircraft type.  Same goes for NVGs, data link, GPS, and any other goodness coming our way.  

I read in aviation week that a bunch of money was allocated to fighter aircraft upgrades, so hopefully we'll jump up to at least 1980's technology in some of our systems.  To counter threats out there TODAY, we need a new radar, new targeting pod, a new jammer, and some sort of multi-spectrum close-range seeker jammer (think R2D2 with a laser pointer).  Maybe we'll get some of it soon.

The article made some digs at the F-16's and truthfully, the viper guys also did great over Afghanistan.  I thought it was funny how the article slams the viper just a bit without going too far past the 10% rule :)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2002, 11:12:40 AM by eagl »
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline AKDejaVu

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Article about 391FS in Afghanistan
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2002, 10:29:55 AM »
I spent 3 years in the 389th.  I never worked on an F-16 though:(  Those came 2 years after I left.

AKDejaVu