Author Topic: Learning to Play Bridge (Read 668 times)

Toad · « **Reply #15 on:** November 23, 2002, 05:58:57 AM »

Well, if you choose to be disingenuous, enjoy your discussion with yourself.

Nash · « **Reply #16 on:** November 23, 2002, 07:11:35 AM »

Yup I'm with Toad.

Either stand by your (obvious) comparison, or it's dead in the water.

(Too bad actually, it mighta been an interesting post about bridge isntead of having to make some kind of point).

beet1e · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2002, 08:48:54 AM »

Mr. Toad, Bounder and Nash -

You should have had the good sense that Lazs had. He poked his nose around the door, but quietly left (after mounting his usual hobby horse about British dentistry). But you guys went further. Nash is now saying that my original post is an obvious comparison with Aces High. But I never said a word about Aces High. I simply pontificated about my Bridge course.

I used some vernacular which *may* have been used in Aces High, but such vernacular is used elsewhere and in other flight sims, and is not exclusive to Aces High.

Gentlemen, I don't disagree that a comparison has been made between Bridge and Aces High. But that comparison was made not by me, but by you.

lazs2 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2002, 09:45:32 AM »

hobby horse... LOL... look at your sig beetle. you are getting to be a joke. I realize that being on the wrong side of everything forces you to be a tiny bit obtuse and verbose but.... wouldn't it be easier to simply not voice your opinions around people who can reason? If all you are trying to do is make yourself look like a pompous control freak then... I'm wrong... you are doing well.

Lazs
Public Relations Officer for the Bk's
originator of the terms "strat potato" 'fluffers" "sky accountants" "building battlers" "dildo worshipers" and... so many more descriptive terms.

Lazs who's entire posts are usually shorter than beetles sigs.

beet1e · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2002, 11:15:06 AM »

Lazs! hehe, now this will be very hard to believe, but this morning I did receive a very nice email from America written by a guy who agrees 100% with the purple text of my sig. A very nice chap he is too. That's all I'm saying. I never quote people without permission, except for using descriptive terms which have entered a vernacular.

So Lazs, your remarks were way off. You would be surprised at the friendships I have made on this and other boards, despite my perceived pomposity. Let's see now, I have drawn flak from how many people here - 3 or 4? Out of an AH subscribership of many thousands. What you don't see is the people who approach me behind the scenes, and who say things like "you were spot on in your post/sig". And I'm not about to reveal their emails or their identities.

The thing is, Lazs, that I don't mind standing up to be counted in the face of adversity. I will say what I believe, regardless of how many or how few are likely to agree. Different though the US and Britain are, they are both still democracies. People are allowed to say what they think of Tony Blair or George Bush. But you seem to be suggesting that I should shut up - for no other reason than the fact that it might suit some people, yourself included. Sure, if I lived in Iraq or pre-liberation Afghanistan, that would be sound advice. But it seems strange, coming from you, who has always been keen to champion the freedoms enjoyed by America. You're like those people who claim that "this is a US BBS"...

...oh yeah, I get it - freedom and democracy - when it suits.

hardcase · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2002, 02:11:03 PM »

Bidding has mechanisms to almost tell your partner what is in your hand. Diff cards and distributions have value...Ace=4, king=3 queen 2 Jack 1. Voids are worth the same as an Ace, Long suits are worth more than just the value of the cards.

Bidding and making your game gives you points
Suits have hierarchy.. Spades, Hearts are Major Suits
Clubs Diamonds are minor suits..

Making "game" gets you more points than just bidding lower than the suits game trick taking amount

the bidding is based on taking 6 tricks plus what you bid.
Taking 4 tricks in Majors
Taking 5 tricks in Minors
Taking 3 tricks in No Trump make "game"

Being doubled and losing cost more points than not being doubled
ReDouble is where you override a double thinking you will make your bid. If so, more points, if not even more loss than double.

Bidding and playing are two equally important parts of the game.

By bidding your and your partner can infer the value of your cards and the lenght and suits of your hard. You can infer strengths and weaknesses in your opponents hand from the bidding or lack of bidding, they can do the same.

HC

hardcase · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2002, 02:13:35 PM »

about your sig..

when guns became prevalent and easy to use, Europe was civilized. The Americas were frontier. Guns made the the settling of america posible. There are still places in the west were help from the police etc can be hours away. Guns were and are still a necessary part of americana.

hc

beet1e · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2002, 02:56:21 PM »

Hardcase - tnx for your excellent post.

Yep, they taught us that "length=strength" in a suit. I must have missed the part about voids being worth the same as an ace - 4 points - but it makes perfect sense. Can you explain the business about being vulnerable and non-vulnerable? I guess the person at the end of the .44 Magnum is vulnerable, but that was just a joke with Lazs. We never got on to vulnerability, did not discuss finessing, and did not cover the doubling/redoubling bids. We did get on to the Red-X bid, because my partner had a balanced hand with strength in all suits but no dominant suit - a 4-3-3-3 hand - we ended up playing in NT. I had 6 hearts but could not bid them because the rest of my hand was too weak - 6 points. So the board was replayed on the other table using the Red-X bid, final bid was 4 hearts.

Bloody fascinating game.

HC, I accept your point of view about guns. And certainly, where my girlfriend Tomato comes from, I would consider being armed in remote areas as essential. It's the handgun proliferation in America that is wrong. Weapons of convenience. Saturday Night Specials in every apartment.

Being allowed to have a gun, but not heroin or cocaine....

hardcase · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2002, 03:02:10 PM »

I only played tournament bridge where vulnerablity was automated depending on which "board" you are playing. I belive it somehow rotates ..east west..north south..neither..not sure if both can be vulnerable. My understading is that it alters the value of gameplay. Sometimes taking a sacrificec is better than letting the others make game. etc. Overtricks in casual play usually aren't worth risking taking game, but in tournament, overtricks make the differencec between winning a hand and losing. One table makes four hears with no overtrick..next table makes 4 hears with one overtrick..they win the board. I havent played in years but it was always a good way to spend an evening. Knowing how to play can get you into many places. Gates even plays.

BTW ..voids are valuble ONLY if you are not playing No Trumps. So many variations in that game.

HC

lazs2 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2002, 07:29:26 PM »

beetle, i am not asking you to shut up.. fact is..

I am not the least surprised that at least one.... possibly even more... American(s) out of allmost 300,000,000 agree with your sig. I doubt that even one would agree that it was not getting a little old and that it had been refuted enough to make it somewhat embarassing. I am surprised that you can't see how you look by repeating over and over a sig that is missleading and in one instance just plain dumb. I am surprised that you can't see that a lecture about American firearms from a brit would be viewed less than seriously especially given one is a lecture from "the home office"... certainly not my home tho eh?

you may find this hard to believe but... I find plenty of people to agree with me.. this is not too odd tho considering that according to polls more than 80% of Americans believe in the second amendment. They did not poll british citizens because frankly.... after you have voiced your opinion... you are no longer interesting... your lack of understanding makes you seem a buffoon.... one or two emails from insecure nail biters who don't have the courage to voice their own opinion should not be construed by you to mean that you have some sort of consensous or that your view is new and interesting... Some sort of reasoned revelation that the rest of us had somehow missed the first dozen times you posted it... So again...

no one here cares what the "home office" thinks about what happens in the U.S. Everyone is well aware of the obvious slant and missleading "facts".. I mean... we don't have 15 times as many murders we just use different weapons than you. We also have different people...

as for pointing guns.. when the gun pointing starts I have allways found that I felt much better about it if I could point one back. People overreact... a serial rapist or killer goes on a rampage and everyone goes out and buys a gun.. probly a little ineffectual against that situation but.... between 1-3 million crimes are stopped woith guins every year..

england could sure do with some crime stopping of it's own it would seem but... I don't go on about how you guys are blowing it with your effeminate and unreasonable fear of firearms... I could show... by comparing how many crimes are prevented in the U.S. compared to how many are prevented in the uk by firearms, that you are causing needless suffering and crime with your hysterical and unreasonable fear of firearms. but why bother.. It's your country and you are probly used to the crime anyway. I bet yours get's a lot worse before it get's better. wanna bet?

lazs

SaburoS · « **Reply #25 on:** November 23, 2002, 07:35:07 PM »

beet1e,
Being this is a BBS for AH players, I found your entertaining comparisons of bridge to AH.
However it is a comparison of apples to oranges.

**********

I can understand your perception of your somewhat non-gun culture England to our somewhat pro-gun culture USA.
Understand that the chances of getting shot at in the US is far less than what you perceive it to be. I have never been shot at or ever had a gun pointed at me. In 4 occasions in my life I've had to point my firearm at individuals to prevent violence. They decided it was better to stop and leave rather than getting shot. I used my firearm to prevent violence and no one got hurt. Had I not had a firearm at those times, I probably would be injured, or killed. In a couple of instances I would of lost my valuables also. The police would have not been able to save me in those instances.
I have been shooting off and on for over 33 of my 40 years. I am a good shot at both pistol and rifle. I was on my high school rifle team (had to qualify as US Army expert to get on the team). My present firearms include:
1) SigSauer P220-45 (tritium night sights) w/ Barstow stainless comp barrel.
2) SigSauer P230 in .380
3) Remington 700 PSS .308 barrel has been Cryomaxed and will shoot down to 1/4" center to center 3-shot groups with factory match ammo at 100 meters.
4) L1A1 that has been legally modified (meets both Federal and California laws), will shoot down to 1" center to center 3-shot groups with factory match ammo at 100 meters.
I don't go around waiting to shoot at people. I've never shot anyone. Neither has any of my friends. Actually I've known several cops and none of them has actually shot anyone (San Francisco, Burlingame, San Mateo, San Bruno, Belmont).
I own my guns mainly for target shooting. Self defense is a secondary reason for me. Peace of mind. Am I for private ownership of firearms here in the US? Damn straight.
Am I for England to pass and keep whatever gun restriction laws they wish to for English citizens? Yes sir.
Regards.

Urchin · « **Reply #26 on:** November 23, 2002, 09:00:29 PM »

I always thought that Tomato was yer cat? She's your girlfriend? Or is she both?

beet1e · « **Reply #27 on:** November 24, 2002, 05:53:18 AM »

Lazs - this is not a guns thread. You are off topic in the off topic forum! The sig. stays. Get over it. We did guns to death in the other threads.

Saburo -

Quote

Being this is a BBS for AH players, I found your entertaining comparisons of bridge to AH.
However it is a comparison of apples to oranges.

Excuse me? I'm not talking about Aces High, hence my choice of forum for this thread. I was talking about Bridge. Aces High and Bridge are two totally different games. So what was it that made you think I was making a comparison between the two? Once again, if any comparison is being made, that comparison is being made not by me, but by you. Face it, Sab - you walked right into that one.

lazs2 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 24, 2002, 10:03:46 AM »

beetle... your sig is part of your post. If you don't want a part of your post being discussed then maybe you should leave it out? but then.... I don't really know the posting rules. Perhaps you could enlighten me? I would hate to be breaking any rules.

oh... and saburo pretty much voices the opinions of American gun owners.
lazs

"england could sure do with some crime stopping of it's own it would seem but... I don't go on about how you guys are blowing it with your effeminate and unreasonable fear of firearms... I could show... by comparing how many crimes are prevented in the U.S. compared to how many are prevented in the uk by firearms, that you are causing needless suffering and crime with your hysterical and unreasonable fear of firearms. but why bother.. It's your country and you are probly used to the crime anyway. I bet yours get's a lot worse before it get's better. wanna bet?
lazs"

"I can understand your perception of your somewhat non-gun culture England to our somewhat pro-gun culture USA.
Understand that the chances of getting shot at in the US is far less than what you perceive it to be. I have never been shot at or ever had a gun pointed at me. In 4 occasions in my life I've had to point my firearm at individuals to prevent violence. They decided it was better to stop and leave rather than getting shot. I used my firearm to prevent violence and no one got hurt. Had I not had a firearm at those times, I probably would be injured, or killed. In a couple of instances I would of lost my valuables also. The police would have not been able to save me in those instances.
I have been shooting off and on for over 33 of my 40 years. I am a good shot at both pistol and rifle. I was on my high school rifle team (had to qualify as US Army expert to get on the team). My present firearms include:
1) SigSauer P220-45 (tritium night sights) w/ Barstow stainless comp barrel.
2) SigSauer P230 in .380
3) Remington 700 PSS .308 barrel has been Cryomaxed and will shoot down to 1/4" center to center 3-shot groups with factory match ammo at 100 meters.
4) L1A1 that has been legally modified (meets both Federal and California laws), will shoot down to 1" center to center 3-shot groups with factory match ammo at 100 meters.
I don't go around waiting to shoot at people. I've never shot anyone. Neither has any of my friends. Actually I've known several cops and none of them has actually shot anyone (San Francisco, Burlingame, San Mateo, San Bruno, Belmont).
I own my guns mainly for target shooting. Self defense is a secondary reason for me. Peace of mind. Am I for private ownership of firearms here in the US? Damn straight.
Am I for England to pass and keep whatever gun restriction laws they wish to for English citizens? Yes sir.
Regards. "

NUKE · « **Reply #29 on:** November 24, 2002, 10:12:01 AM »

Quote

Lazs - this is not a guns thread. You are off topic in the off topic forum! The sig. stays. Get over it. We did guns to death in the other threads.

Actually Beet1e, you sig makes all your posts open for gun discussion by default.

I personally like the sig, makes you look like you desperatley need a soapbox for your views.