Author Topic: So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?  (Read 446 times)

Offline Urchin

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« on: November 30, 2002, 06:51:59 PM »
Ya know.. it meets all the 'criteria'... almost none were produced, its the most used "unit" in the game, it takes no skill whatsoever to use.  

I'm all for ground vehicles.  I really am.  I think they bring an interesting dimension to this game.  What I'm honestly getting sick and tired of seeing is a "GV attack" that consists of X number of Flakpansies and 1 M3.  

For christs sake, I think what, FORTY of the whoopee things were made.  Yet, they are used more often than any plane.  They have more than twice the number of kills of the next closest ground vehicle.  They have over HALF the kills made by ground vehicles total.

They'll kick the toejam out of a Panzer if they can get within 2k.  They'll blow up a town, all the 'porkable' stuff on a field, the ack, and the VH, and still have enough ammo left over for 10 kills.  They can kill any plane in the game (with the exception of the heavy bombers) with a single hit.

Yea, I know the Il-2 "can" (supposedly) take more than 1 hit from a Flakpansie.  I've even seen it happen... once.  I've seen some planes take more than 1 hit from a 30mm to... does that mean it doesnt kill in one hit the vast vast vast VAST majority of the time?  

Honestly... we don't need a perked Tiger.  We need a perked Flakpansie.

I guess I'll throw in some stats showing exactly how great our laughable "ground attack" planes are against the everpresent Flakpansie.

Bf110G2:  Flakpansie has 1,212 kills and 542 deaths.  K/D 2.24
Fw190F8:  Flakpansie has 164 kills and 78 deaths.  K/D 2.10
Hurricane 2D: Flakpansie has 228 kills and 35 deaths.  K/D 6.51
IL-2:  Flakpansie has 463 kills and 294 deaths.  K/D 1.57
Yak-9T:  Flakpansie has 484 kills and 216 deaths.  K/D 2.24

As you can see, our "ground attack" planes are quite effective.  In a contest between a "ground attack" plane and a Flakpansie... the Flakpansie wins 70% of the time.  It even has a fair chance against tanks, winning 25% of Tank vs Flakpansie fights.  I'm definately no expert at GV 'warfare', but I'd hazard a guess and say probably the other 75% the Panzer managed to kill the Flakpansie before it got within 2k, or it would be one dead tank.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2002, 07:04:39 PM by Urchin »

Offline airspro

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2002, 07:31:05 PM »
Sorry but alot of the flack kills are from dweebs hitting the ground trying to shot you :D  , and you know it don't ya ?

I really like the "Ace's Low" part of the game too .
My current Ace's High handle is spro

Offline Urchin

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2002, 07:54:19 PM »
I'd guess, at most, 5% of the Flakpansies kills are 'prox' kills.  The rest of the time the planes do indeed hit the ground, they are just missing a wing or their tail because the Flakpansie landed the one hit it needs to kill practically anything.

Offline loser

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2002, 08:50:22 PM »
urchin kill the vh.  then no gvs will bother you.  The ostwind is actually a pretty crappy vehicle

true it has a gun from hell, if some dork is willing to fly a flat trajectory rocket run towards it.  An attack on high will kill an osti and it wont be able to shoot back (accuratley)  

The osty is rather useless unless fighters get impatient. It has such a slow rate of fire and such arced rounds that it is almost impossible to hit anything that isnt flying directly at you.

And as far as your point regarding panzers vs flaks... please


If an osty gets within 2k you have bad eyes.  And if you have bad eyes and get hit by an osty....

One 37mm round will hoop your track IRL. (i know this because i was a panzer commander in WW2.)

Offline Saurdaukar

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2002, 12:09:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by loser


One 37mm round will hoop your track IRL. (i know this because i was a panzer commander in WW2.)


Wow, really?  (Fear of troll:  HIGH)

Offline eskimo2

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2002, 12:29:12 AM »
I agree with Urchin, 5 to 10 perks for an Ostwind.

eskimo

Offline Hooligan

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2002, 01:57:18 AM »
Makes sense to me to have it perked.

Hooligan

Offline mipoikel

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2002, 03:48:05 AM »
I agree. Perk osti!
I am a spy!

Offline Saintaw

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2002, 04:11:41 AM »
Yeah... but what if we get it's alternative the whirblewind(sp?) , now THAT would be a real nightmare :eek:

I'm all for perking it (low cost, like the F4U-C).
Saw
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Offline wulfie

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So.... whens the Flakpansie going to be perked?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2002, 04:25:37 AM »
It should be perked, but I think that won't happen until the new GV armor/armament system/models/etc. are out.

Based on rarity, the only SPAA vehicle that shouldn't be perked would be the M16...because by 1944 every U.S. division had SPAA as part of its AA component.

German SPAA - even the lowly SdKfz with a single 2cm FlaK 38 - was only found in Pz. and some 'elite' Pz. Gr. divisions. The vast majority of everyone's (except the U.S.) AA was towed for the duration of the war.

When a newer GV system/modeling/etc. is in place you'll see the effectiveness of the Ostwind (and all open topped vehicles) be reduced with regards to them being used as 'multi-purpose' vehicles.

I have after action reports of German Pz. and Pz. Gr. units, some of them dealing with the use of SPAA in the direct fire role vs. ground targets. The crews were very reluctant to operate anywhere within 1000 meters of the enemy. Makes sense - they'd train the 20mm or 37mm automatic cannon on some fortifications and let lose with the shells. Very good at supressing defenders no doubt. You don't need to get within 300 meters to conduct 'area fire' with a big bore automatic weapon.

When a more detailed system is in place, 90% or more of the Ostwind's ammunition is going to be fuzed HE that detonates after a certain period of time in flight. Small caliber automatic FlaK weapons of all Nationalities usually didn't care more than 15% of their ammunition loadout in the form of AP. Those few AP rounds were for emergency self defense.

Also, when a more detailed armor system is in place, you're going to see small caliber weapons of all kinds lose a great deal of their effectiveness vs. GVs, especially moderately armored closed-top AFVs. Outside of 600 meters or so, the 3.7cm FlaK 43 of the Ostwind had zero chance of outright 'killing' (fire, explosion, catastrophic penetration, multiple crew casualties, etc.) a Pz IVH. Between 200-600 meters there's a *slight* chance of a penetration, but the odds of a single 3.7cm AP penetration blowing up a Pz IVH are fairly slim. Under 100 meters the Pz IVH would be worrying. Much increased penetration at that range and close range and high ROF = alot of hits.

But I'm pretty sure the applicable HTC staff know all this. But what's the point in commiting resources to a 'band-aid fix' when they are probably working on a new armor/penetration system already?

Being open-topped (M16 MGMC, Ostwind, FlakPz IV/20) or 'soft' (SdKfz, Soviet and German truck based SPAA, etc.) is also going to be *alot* more dangerous when there is *any* form of infantry and/or indirect fire present. 4 human controlled 'infantrymen', each with a rifle and 2-4 hand grenades would pose a very significant threat to any SPAA platform at 300 meters range or less. Given 40 chances, someone is going to land a head shot or two at 300 meters, even in combat.

Also, hopefully we'll have historically accurate gunsights for the GVs sooner or later. SPAA gunsights were generally 'narrow band, high magnification, high clarity' gunsights - they were made to accurately direct fire at over 1000 meters in general. They weren't made to track 2 infantry guys rushing the SPAA platform at 200 meters.

I don't think you'll see them perked for awhile, but I think you'll see them perked eventually and you'll also see their survivability go down when they are used 'unrealistically'.

Mike/wulfie