Tomato:
The argument here, is find the cause (or set of causes) and tackle that.
Is the criminal himself really the cause? Does that mean that the USA has proportionately more criminally-minded people than E&W? If so, why is that?
Well, it's clear to any open minded person that the inanimate objects are not a "cause". Inanimate objects are just that. Knives don't jump up and stab anyone anymore than guns pull their own triggers.
Is the criminal the cause? Who else eviscerates the victim? Responsibility and accountability. All of us are responsible for our actions.
Clearly, the US generates more homicides than E/W/S. OTOH, E/W/S are ahead of the US in many (if not most) other violent crime categories.
Why is that? I surely don't know. Do you?
The societies, their histories and their mores are vastly different. To some extent that causes a "apples to oranges" situation. We tend to view these two societies as somewhat similar but I don't really believe that to be the case.
In any event, since all agree the US has a higher homicide rate, the questions that pop up are:
"Why?" and "What to do about it?"
I don't know why. As you pointed out, there are a myriad of factors that influence the mindset and actions of any society. I don't think any one here on this BBS has even tried to explain that situation, nor offer any cogent analysis of why it is so. We all just seem to accept it as fact. Beyond that, no one would question that E/W/S is a very different society than the US.
So we come to "what to do?"
Some, like Beetle, propose licensing/registration/banning/confiscation of firearms. Unfortunately for that approach, there are some obvious inconsistencies.
1. The two countries that have tried it E/W/S and Australia have had (at very best) indifferent results. One can argue the details of non-standardized statistics but one cannot argue that by ANY accounting there has been little change when comparing pre and post-ban homicide rates in both nations. Some say homicides went up a bit. Some say they went down a bit. No one makes the case that there was a MAJOR, statistically significant change. The official Australian reports even point out that the ban has had no provable effect.
Further, the US has experienced much larger drops in its firearms homicide rates during the same periods WITHOUT any of the draconian measures imposed by E/W/S and Australia.
So why embark on a costly, onerous to law-abiding citizens program that hasn't significantly changed the homicide rate where it's been used? Especially since rates have dropped
faster here in the US where it HASN'T been used?
2. As I mentioned, there's an FBI report that points out that the overwhelming majority of US homicides are committed by known felons. It seems obivious that felons have little regard for the laws, so legal restrictions on firearms would probably have little if any effect. Another supposition supported by what happened in E/W/S and Australia.
On a positive note, three programs that directly address the root cause of firearms homicides... the criminal..... have had great success in reducing homicide rates.
Project Exile Most importantly, these efforts appear to be stemming the tide of violence, with homicides for the period November 1997 through July 1998, running more than 65% below the same period one year ago.
Much better than the ambivalent results posted in E/W/S and Australia, no?
Operation Ceasefire - Philadelphia Since January 1999, the federally funded Operation Cease Fire program has hauled more than 300 of Philadelphia’s most egregious gun offenders off the streets and into federal court....
Philadelphia’s rates of shootings and killings have been dropping steadily since Cease Fire’s launch 15 months ago.
Once again results that are clearly positive. (Interesting article btw; I suggest reviewing all of it.)
Boston - Operation Cease FireOperation Cease Fire
This program is a problem-solving approach to tackle youth firearm violence with a wide range of partners. Compliance meetings are used in detected hot spots where officials meet with gang members who are told to cease the violence or face serious consequences (e.g., federal prosecution).
Operation Night Light ensures gang-involved youth comply with the terms of probation orders. In addition, the U.S. Attorney's Office, in close collaboration with state and local officials, has broken several weapons trafficking operations and gained stiff federal sentences for key gang leaders.
Statistics reveal the impact: 1997 homicide victimization among those 24 years of age and younger has fallen 70% from the means of the years 1991-1995; and among juveniles, firearm homicides were down 90% in 1997 compared to 1990.
Once again, rather stellar results from addressing the true cause of firearms homicide..... the criminals. Especially when compared to the basically unchanged firearms homicides in E/W/S & Australia after trying to place the blame on inanimate objects.
And so it is with Beetle. He'll defend his pointless, unsuccessful program ad infinitum, blaming guns for the problem. He'll proudly ignore the other inanimate items, sharp instruments, that are used in three times as many homicides as guns in E/W/S. One would think, for consistency, that if he'd ban guns to save one life, he'd realize the much larger potential of saving lives that banning "sharp instruments" would offer.
I suspect the true case is that he knows it wouldn't work... just as the gun ban doesn't work.
So, to close this lengthy piece, why bother with a program that doesn't work?
Especially when there are programs that DO work and do not infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens?
It isn't the inamimate objects; it's the criminals wielding them.
Until THAT is addressed, you'll see basically no change in rates.
