Author Topic: Those English have some pretty sharp instruments! (Read 914 times)

swoopy · « **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2002, 04:51:59 PM »

You keep your semi-automatic/automatic myriad of modern tools for killing people and we'll keep our up-close-and-personal tools for preparing food and I'm sure we'll all have a nice day.

- Dowding

Toad · « **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2002, 05:03:12 PM »

So, as long as nobody uses a gun you're OK with the homicide rate?

The Home Office fact that three times as many of your homicides feature "sharp instruments" doesn't bother you?

Obviously, "sharp instruments" are far more of a problem in your country than firearms.

Seems hypocritical not to care.

In fact, it seems like you take the same approach to your "sharp instruments" as we take to our firearms. An approach you castigate us for but accept in yourselves.

thrila · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2002, 05:29:43 PM »

I really don't understand the argument here.

Toad, you are saying you are 3 times more likely to die from a knife than a firearm, that i understand. Everything else i don't.

Seeing as how rare guns are in the UK why wouldn't that be any different?

Why aren't we in an uproar over knives? I don't see people carrying machettes, yes certain knives are illegal too.

I don't understand how you can compare a tool for preparing food (as swoopy said) to a weapon designed to kill such as a gun.

Thrawn · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2002, 05:57:46 PM »

Toad is being facetious.

Karnak · « **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2002, 05:59:14 PM »

Toad,

Now I'm pro gun, but your arguments here are stupid in the extreme.

The UK has a lower homicide rate with knives, swords, scissors and other sharp impliments than the USA has with knives, swords, scissors and other sharp impliments. The numbers fall out something like this:

1 in 240,000 people in the UK were killed by knives.
1 in 145,000 people in the USA were killed by knives.

Therefore the USA has a higher homicide rate with knives than does the UK.

You are trying to portray it like the UK is dripping in blood from all the homicide victims killed by knives, but this is blantantly false and an obvious intentional misreading of the statistics to get the results you want.

gatso · « **Reply #20 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:05:03 PM »

Toad is being a 'blunt tool' (lol, bounder

)

On any given day you are 1.6 times more likely to be stabbed and killed in the US than the UK.

On any given day you are lots (can't be arsed to work it out) more likely to be shot in the US than the UK.

Your point was Toad...?

Gatso

Toad · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:09:53 PM »

My point was some of you folks seem to accept the far greater homicide rate of "sharp instruments" (in comparison to firearms in the UK) with near total equanimity.

OTOH, you castigate anyone in the US that has any attitude even remotely similar to that with respect to firearms homicides.

Murder is murder, is it not? If you're all so upset about firearms deaths..... to the point that you basically confiscated or severely restricted guns in the UK..... why are you not upset about homicide by "sharp instrument"? Clearly, that is your major problem right now.

Seems pretty hypocritical to me. THAT is the point.

Toad · « **Reply #22 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:24:49 PM »

Or perhaps another way of expressing it.

Assume a fantasy world where the homicide rates in the UK and the US are exactly as they exist in this world right now except that all homicides committed with firearms in both countries were instead committed with "sharp instruments".

That is, the homicide rates are the same except that "sharp instruments" are responsible for all deaths now attributed to firearms.

Would we still be getting lectures from across the Atlantic on registering & banning sharp instruments?

Is it the man or the inanimate object that needs controls?

gatso · « **Reply #23 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:29:53 PM »

We don't like knife murders. We don't like gun murders.

We have lots less gun murders than the US because guns are only availible if you break the law. We have less knife murders than you because.... mmm. I don't know.

Knives are one of the founding tools that the whole of our civilisation is based on. Guns are just a modern method of distant death.

Toad, Everything you have brought up is a non-issue based on what media pundits over here would call 'spin'. It's all in the presentation and has little bearing on fact or real life.

Gatso

gatso · « **Reply #24 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:35:22 PM »

Quote

Assume a fantasy world

Such as the one you appear to resident in at the moment?

Quote

That is, the homicide rates are the same except that "sharp instruments" are responsible for all deaths now attributed to firearms.

More fantasy spin.

Quote

Would we still be getting lectures from across the Atlantic on registering & banning sharp instruments?

Nope, we'd just be winding you up because your murder rate would still be higher than ours even though the instruments of death would be the same.

Gatso

OZkansas · « **Reply #25 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:36:56 PM »

http://www.shopathometv.com/shopathome/network/community/community.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0547871723.1038184999@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjadcgldiefmlcefeceeedffkdfjk.0&n=0&OID=-8362

Enjoy:)

NUKE · « **Reply #26 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:44:02 PM »

Quote

Knives are one of the founding tools that the whole of our civilisation is based on. Guns are just a modern method of distant death.

Guns are a modern meathod of defence as well, and I'd rather be armed when encountering some nutcase that wants to kill me or break into my house.

What do you guys do, bash the intruder over the head with a lamp ( Like George Harrison's wife had to do) when he wants to kill you? <------ Benny Hill music playing in background as murderer and victim go round and round

What if you are not near a lamp..... what then?

Toad · « **Reply #27 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:49:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by gatso
We don't like knife murders. We don't like gun murders.

[/b]

But apparently you accept knife murders as inescapable facts of life. To quote Swoopy: "". OTOH, you ban/severely restrict guns. Doesn't seem a bit odd to you?

Quote

We have lots less gun murders than the US because guns are only availible if you break the law. We have less knife murders than you because.... mmm. I don't know.

[/b]

How does the fact that murder itself is against the law factor in? Does it perhaps suggest to you that folks that will murder have little or no regard for any law?

Your rate of "sharp instrument" murder is 3X your gun murder yet none of you seem concerned in the least. You don't find that curious?

Is it the means of murder that worries an Englishman or the fact of murder?

Quote

Knives are one of the founding tools that the whole of our civilisation is based on. Guns are just a modern method of distant death.

[/b]

So it is the nature of the tool used that matters in murder? Death by a 9 Iron is ok because it's merely a golf tool?

(BTW, I don't agree with your overly simplistic summation on guns. They've been used to preseve life and liberty quite often as well as providing food, one of the basic necessities of life for many societies. Beyond that, "sharp instruments" share much of the same purpose and historical usage as guns. Know of any society that ever used a broadsword primarily for cooking?)

You continue to dodge the issue. Homicide is homicide no matter what tool is used. Clearly, after the gun ban, "sharp instrument" homicide increased, particularly in Scotland. Men made choices. So where is the concern?

Toad · « **Reply #28 on:** November 24, 2002, 06:54:13 PM »

And which of these "sharp instruments" pictured in the BBC article on "Scottish Homicide Rate Soars" is typical of a founding tool that our entire civilisation is based upon?

The bayonets, the Bowie knives or kukris?

beet1e · « **Reply #29 on:** November 24, 2002, 07:12:46 PM »

Homicide by sharp instruments - tragic. That's why airlines now ban sharp instruments in carry on luggage. Tomato even had a pair of nail scissors confiscated on a RyanAir flight. Mr. Toad, it is late, I am tired. Please ponder on the lives that were lost on 11-09-2001 - because of sharp instrumets. And now I'm going to bed.