Author Topic: The *last* great American president.  (Read 1017 times)

Offline lazs2

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The *last* great American president.
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2002, 02:33:24 PM »
teddy was great... jfk was a murdering incompetent who got elected on his looks and his dads criminal funds and a stolen state..  he prolonged the cold war... got us into the vietnam war and made sure we couldn't get out or win... he allmost turned the world into nuclear ash.   He brayed like a donkey when he spoke.  total loser.   His family continues to be murdering, raping incompetents.... drug addicts and drunks getting by on a failing family fortune and what's left of their looks..   The kennedy's remind us why we would never want royalty.

other than that he wasn't much worse than most..
lazs

Offline bounder

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The *last* great American president.
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2002, 02:53:02 PM »
I knew JFK as the man who tripled the US nuclear arsenal and took loads of drugs, at the same time.

Well, one out of two aint bad

Offline 10Bears

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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2002, 03:04:00 PM »
Truth is what your political tribe says it is”

Funked up complains about a beauty contest with JFK but doesn’t mention Ronald Reagan was a Hollywood movie star. I mean the Republicans simply went out and hired a professional actor to play President of the United States!. Oh he could read those lines someone else wrote for him --had tape on the floor so he knew exactly where to put his feet he was a real pro in that regard. The test of time is the mans actual record.

“He made the country feel good about itself”

How do you measure that?.. where is the chart for these vague platitudes

“He ended the cold war”

That’s debatable the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 3 years after he left office. One could easily assert Geo Bush Sr ended the Soviet Union. The CIA had no inkling the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse. There was a lot of forces at play there it wasn’t one man who caused the collapse.  

True the U.S out spent the Soviet Union but at what cost?.. Any of you remember buying a new car back in the 80s?.. 18% interest rates -- that’s what happens when you act like a teenager with a new credit card run up the deficit three trillion dollars.

I’m willing to bet you guys don’t want to look at some of the things that might make Saint Ronnie a little less great... things like looting the HUD funding, looting the savings and loans. Oh little things like standing in front of the cameras declaring “we don’t negotiate with terrorists”  then turn around and sell arms for hostages on the very same day. Taking the proceeds to fund his secret war in central America... without Congress consent.. Let me repeat that.. this is not made up... Without Congress Consent!!!... Even my father before he passed away and was a big fan of Ronnie.. said that was going over the line..

Iran Contra is bad enough never mind opening up the mental hospitals so tens of thousands of mentally ill people can wonder the streets homeless. Or after declaring a war on drugs has his Iran-Contra boys bring in PLANELOADS of cocaine to be distributed in mostly afra-American communities (CIA more or less has already admitted this)  Or giving blanket amnesty to ALL illegal aliens then cut funding to border patrols.. Oh yeah, top of the line president.

That Clintoon... You know he LIED!....  he LIED in a court of LAW!!!

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2002, 04:48:22 PM »
Comparing Clinton to Reagan is like comparing a lucky lucciano to  Winston Churchhill.
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Offline weazel

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Your right ammo.....
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2002, 05:12:36 PM »
Clinton only disgraced the presidency.....Reagan defiled it.

Quote
Originally posted by -ammo-
Comparing Clinton to Reagan is like comparing a lucky lucciano to  Winston Churchhill.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2002, 05:37:51 PM »
this last "great" president was put into power by who?

and was probably killed by who after he and his bro turned on them once they got into power?

pls don't say Oz-wad ....

didn't follow the rule - don't bite the hand the feeds ya - esp if it is an Italian hand
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Offline 40 shades

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« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2002, 06:28:50 PM »
You guys would never of made it to the moon in the 60s if not for Kennedy .
"we choose to go to the moon before this decade is out "
Might of got there in the 70s though.

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2002, 10:15:19 PM »
JFK is alot of different things to alot of different people.  

To me he is:
Powerful and wealthy family dynasty,
PT-109,
Back injury,
Prescription drugs,
Jackie (wife),
Marylin (mistress, one of several but damned nice choice),
Bay of Pigs,
McNamara,
Moon shot,
LBJ,
VietNam,
Brothers Joe, Robert and Ted.......

Its an even split for me.  He was a unique man.  Unfortunately he was shot down before his full measure as a President could be taken.  Minus that, I tend to consider his presidency a minor failure in the history of the United States.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2002, 10:24:04 PM by Yeager »
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Offline -tronski-

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The *last* great American president.
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2002, 10:16:43 PM »
Today, should total war ever break out again--no matter how--our two countries would become the primary targets. It is an ironic but accurate fact that the two strongest powers are the two in the most danger of devastation. All we have built, all we have worked for, would be destroyed in the first 24 hours. And even in the cold war, which brings burdens and dangers to so many nations, including this Nation's closest allies--our two countries bear the heaviest burdens. For we are both devoting massive sums of money to weapons that could be better devoted to combating ignorance, poverty, and disease. We are both caught up in a vicious and dangerous cycle in which suspicion on one side breeds suspicion on the other, and new weapons beget counterweapons.

     In short, both the United States and its allies, and the Soviet Union and its allies, have a mutually deep interest in a just and genuine peace and in halting the arms race. Agreements to this end are in the interests of the Soviet Union as well as ours--and even the most hostile nations can be relied upon to accept and keep those treaty obligations, and only those treaty obligations, which are in their own interest.

     So, let us not be blind to our differences--but let us also direct attention to our common interests and to the means by which those differences can be resolved. And if we cannot end now our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity. For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal.


 Tronsky
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Offline whgates3

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Re: Bwahahaha
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2002, 12:50:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by weazel
Holden McGroin belched

"Reagan’s policies ended the Cold War... yeah you're right, no substance"



Bzzzzttttt....we're sorry, but you should have chosen Door #3 as Door #1 only held the idealized version of world events.

Wow, it never fails that someone will regurgitate the pre-chewed pap they've been fed by the "conservative" right wing.

*All* RoNAlD RaYGunZ did was reap the political bonanza his predecessors worked 40+ years to make.

Anything else is simply a self-serving lie....and you know it.


you're both wrong.
Gorbachev ended the cold war .
he gave his people a bit of freedom & naturally they eliminated their vindicitve authoritarian government.
i expect he knew what he was doing.
the USA did nothing to end the cold war other than set an example of how life could be better than the tyranny that was the soviet union.
if the soviets had another brehznev instead of good 'ol Gorby, they'd still be a communist dictatorship.

Offline weazel

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Nice job..... I stand corrected.
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2002, 01:36:09 AM »
That's a pretty good argument, and a perspective that probably few Americans have considered.

It will be humorous to watch RaYGunZ groupies try to spin their way out of this one....  :p

Who's first up?


Quote
you're both wrong.
Gorbachev ended the cold war .
he gave his people a bit of freedom & naturally they eliminated their vindicitve authoritarian government.
i expect he knew what he was doing.
the USA did nothing to end the cold war other than set an example of how life could be better than the tyranny that was the soviet union.
if the soviets had another brehznev instead of good 'ol Gorby, they'd still be a communist dictatorship.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2002, 05:17:44 PM »
I do believe the US spent the USSR into extinction - there was no way they could keep up with our military & economy

why do you think the USSR went for a change? they were going into the crapper ..........
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Offline whgates3

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« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2002, 08:07:00 PM »
The Soviet military was keeping pace with ours.  evidence of that is the number of foreign airforces that chose MiGs & Sukhois over F-15s & F-16s as well as the rumoured 300 knot russian torpedoes and the soviet equivalents of the SR-71 & Aurora, which we've never heard about, but almost certainly exist.  The USSR went for a change the first time (since before stalin) it was given the opportunity to do so.  
if it had been the loss of some sort of economic race that caused the commies to lose out, then the collapse could have come under the regime of a hardliner just as likley a reformer (actually more likley, as the genuine reformer is such a rare bird - the US could use one - we havent had one since...have we ever had one? Carter tried & failed...) like Gorbachev, but it didn't.
if it had been the loss of some sort of economic race that caused the commies to lose out, then there would have been some sort major struggle with the state trying to maintain control, as happened in the 1st Russian revolution, but what the hardline party members were able to cobble together was less than halfhearted (a few tanks in Moscow & a sit-in in the legislature.  you'd probably get a bigger protest trying in institute a vodka tax)

the ingratitude of the world (especially the Russians & former sattelite states - & the USA) twords Gorby is unfortunate

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2002, 08:14:23 PM »
Eagler, supposing your argument is right (I think it is a big part of the equation, but not the whole equation), are you suggesting that it was Reagan alone that outspent the Soviets?

I'd think that' it'd be more of a wear and tear over many presidencies, with Reagan adding the final pressure that broke the Soviet Union. His economic policy meant dire straits for many Americans (and others around the world) but in the end, if we assume that either of our versions is true, it was worth it.

I still think he was a puppet and a semi criminal (all the secret wars, selling weapons of mass destruction (or the means to produce them) to Iraq etc etc.

Even so, if we assume that his spending as the final straw for the Soviet Union, it was worth even all that. Probably. Depends on whether Iraq uses som weapons of mass destructions on a US city some day in the near future. And it might even be worth that, too (compared to a nuclear winter).

Offline koala

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The *last* great American president.
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2002, 03:54:50 AM »
By far the most important thing that Kennedy did to solidify his "legacy" was take a bullet in the head.