Author Topic: Air start for heavy bombers? (Read 568 times)

Pepe · « **Reply #30 on:** November 28, 2002, 09:12:46 AM »

I was missun you in this thread, Lazs

ALF · « **Reply #31 on:** November 28, 2002, 09:50:49 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Innominate
Better to fix the broken system properly than attempt to put a bandaid on it. (A useable bombsight, and fixes for the various bomber formation bugs are whats needed, not airstarts)

THe bombsight is very workable....just ask any Knit or Bish that have seen me above thier formerly operational bases BWAHAHAHAHAHA!:D

Pongo · « **Reply #32 on:** November 28, 2002, 10:09:56 AM »

I take down 95% of a city with one pass of 3 or 4 bombs. I have done this to 4 towns in one sorti.
When I miss. I know why. I dont think there is anything wrong with the bomb sight.
But the survivablility of the formation is way too low. Between scanking the guns and the bombers being more frail. I think the Bomber 'fix" isnt done till we have some real fear on the part of interceptors when they go after a 3 ship formation of b17s.

Pepe · « **Reply #33 on:** November 28, 2002, 10:51:03 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
... till we have some real fear on the part of interceptors when they go after a 3 ship formation of b17s...

Wrong side. It is the Buffs the ones who should be scared if flying unescorted. Yet the damage possibility is rewarding enough for them to fly, IMHO.

Failing to model it so, we would be back to the most quakeish and nauseabund activity in pre-1.10 AH: the dreaded Jabo B-17. Sometimes the new fighter B-17.

Cheers,

MwRod · « **Reply #34 on:** November 28, 2002, 01:30:54 PM »

Loser your welcome to ride in my bomber any time. I never need more than 2 passes to kill a city. And many knights can attest to this. I have even killed city ejected and came back my own goon.

here is my way of bombing city. for under 25k i use 500 lb bombs. Cut city in 1/4's in your mind. 0.0 line 1/4 1/2 and 1.0 lines do this both ways on city. first pass drop by flying over 1/4 line north south line. drop 1 bomb 0.0 1/4 1/2 and 1.0 east west lines. then flip drop on 3/4 line n/s line same bomb pattern. Entire city will be destoryed.

Now fbfalcon told me he could kill city in 1 pass I said roadkill. But then I did it his way it is possible but is risky. You have to take 9 1000's and a 4000 in lanc and cut city dia. from 1 corner to other corner. dropping 1000's then 4kis in middle city then 1000's again. Granted only got entire city 1 pass just once usally farm is still up. But then you could take bomber low and kill it.

I would not try 1 passes as its not sure thing unless i was going to goon it my self and no cons up . I would recommend 500's in b17's 2 passes and city dead with bombs left over for vh.

Loser have taught many bombers how to bomb. Newbie in squad can kill city 2 passes even now. It is easy and i have plenty of films if you would like to see how.

But best way to teach you how is get in my bomber as gunner. And i can walk you thru steps of how i bomb. This is how I teach others. By explaining what i'm doing as i bomb.

Anyone is welcome to fly in my bomber and I will teach . I do not care which side you fly for.

I will flim a bombrun today or friday and send it to you. If you like i will make a training bomb film. and anyone who likes it i will send to you.

If you would like a copy of bombrun on a city. E-mail me at Pontiacedu@yahoo.com.

or if someone would host bombrun flim We could post on boards.

Revvin · « **Reply #35 on:** November 28, 2002, 01:46:31 PM »

Any kind of airstart is BS. Besides accurate terrain elevation for historically correct terrains I also don't like the idea of elevated airfields to artificially influence the arena either.

Pongo · « **Reply #36 on:** November 28, 2002, 02:59:22 PM »

Pepino
Dweeb bombing is way more common then it ever was. Your own argument is self defeating. Guys come in at 30 ft in lanc forations in hopes of killing one hanger..I see it all the time.
I cant believe that Pyro intended for these 3 bomber formations to be more vulnerable then the singe ships were. But they are..far more vulnerable.

Purzel · « **Reply #37 on:** November 29, 2002, 02:01:18 AM »

I'm not into Buffs, but I would like this also.

In RL Buffs could not defend themselfes when attacked by cons. But when its only a single con, they should stand a chance.

Now, only the B17 is in that position to defend itself. When I find 3 Ju88 or something, and it(they) dont have fighter-support, theyre dead. It just takes a couple of approaches, because of my lousy aim

With air starts (maybe 7k or something) they would have better chances to survive, because many fighters just dont care to climb to the buff-alt. Altitude seems to be the main defense for buffs in the MA...

Pepe · « **Reply #38 on:** November 29, 2002, 04:43:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
Pepino
Dweeb bombing is way more common then it ever was. Your own argument is self defeating. Guys come in at 30 ft in lanc forations in hopes of killing one hanger..I see it all the time.
I cant believe that Pyro intended for these 3 bomber formations to be more vulnerable then the singe ships were. But they are..far more vulnerable.

Pongo,

We changed dweeb 35k pinpoint accuracy undestructable single buff ride that could destroy *all* of a field's hangars to suicidal dweeb running hoping, basically, to make a lot of noise and a bit of destruction.

I, personally, welcome the change, as it was utmost irritating, again for me, having my Ta-152 unable to intercept the so usual Space Shuttles who were, in turn, perfectly capable of wipe out a whole base while blowing me to bits with no risk assumed. Their only merit was a wooden arse and a good book to ride while climbing to stratosphere.

Now I see buffs forced to fly more or less historically (both in terms of altitude and need of escort) and having to develop some skills to actually hit something, or face a more than likely destruction. Still they have teeth to wipe out the careless dead 6 approach and disrupt a single-plane attack. Fair enough in my book.

I know I am not alone if I ask for a more realistic damage model in the bombs side of the game, namely blast radius, appropate effect of this blast radius, and ground damage i.e. craters.

I know I am not alone if I ask for more targets for a proper developement of "carpet bombing" thechnique.

But I see current buff model as a huge step forward from the previous situation in an ongoing process that is far from over.

All I can say is that I like the general direction the buff thinghie is taking.

Oh...anb ~~Buff riders....you have more respect from me than ever before~~

Revvin · « **Reply #39 on:** November 29, 2002, 10:19:14 AM »

Quote

I know I am not alone if I ask for more targets for a proper developement of "carpet bombing" thechnique.

No.9 already use carpet bombing and 'drop on lead' technique to good effect on strat targets.

Pongo · « **Reply #40 on:** November 29, 2002, 10:25:37 AM »

Ya I have played this game since beta. I saw fewer buffs at 35k in that whole time then I see now at 2k in a night. glad you think that is more realistic. Basically the bomber pilots know they can not beat off a single cannon armed attacker in most cases so why climb to even 14k? The defense of bombers is porked in this game. Glad you like it but its porked and I have no doubt it will be fixed. The chance of landing a Lancaster sorti if it is opposed at all is near zero. People home in on you like your in a defensless perk plane. Cause you are nearly defensless and you have three kills to cough up.

I got 3 b17s and 2 lancs and a 205 in one sorti the other night. The b17s where defensless as long as I was reasonably patient. The lancs are just plane defensless. That is why they fly on the deck At least they have narrowed the angles that bad guys will approach when their bellys are in the water

I think I'm something like 20 to 1 kill to death against lancasters this tour. Its broken. Accept it.

Revvin · « **Reply #41 on:** November 29, 2002, 10:45:27 AM »

No.9 never fly above maximum recorded ceilings for the bombers we fly which is around 28k for a B17 and 23k for a Lancaster we always aim to reach around 20k, infact a few nights ago we dropped at out lowest ever alt of 11k due to cloud cover and we felt very vunerable as it's not somethign we normally do. I feel that bombers havebecome more fragile since v1.10 and concur that it's sometimes a deathwish to fly Lancasters as oppossed to the more salamanderly B17, one a number of occassions I've lit a con up like a christmas tree and he's flown off like I just tickled him and many times seen my formation of three bombers fall in a single attack from a fighter. I feel something is not quite right.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #42 on:** November 29, 2002, 10:51:26 AM »

just fix the bombers.

it is way to easy to kill 3 at a time as it is.

Pepe · « **Reply #43 on:** November 29, 2002, 10:58:10 AM »

Pongo,

I'm glad that you are glad about me being satisfied with the direction Buff modeling is taking in this game.

I'm sorry, though, as I won't accept it is broken whatsoever. If the aim of this game is giving a hint of what WWII combat was, I think current model is, by far, better than the old one.

Beta-player here too, Lone base-porker 35k buff was the regular way before they were fixed, perhaps you should habe been flying higher to notice

Let me bring your attention to a couple words in your sentence: "...as I was reasonably patient..." now we are talking common ground. A lone buff, with no escort, attacked by a lone fighter reasonably skilled should hold almost no chances. A 3 ship B-17 formation DO provide with a reasonable chance to kill the attacker, if the gunner is not sub-par skilled, and if the attacker is not careful about his patterns. I would venture to say that B-26's too. Even Ki-67's if not attacked properly do. So it's far more than WWII buff crews had, If we are to believe what books say. Like it is today, I think it's a fair game concession to buff drivers.

If you want to be able to wipe out a field all by your solitude, and merrilly proceed to kill 3 or 4 fighters per sortie, as it was the normal procedure before the buff fix, then I have to say that we have quite different conceptions about this game.

If you want to completely anihilate a field, a rational not quakeish approach to the problem should suggest that you need, at the very least, quite a bit of human resources to do it. So you either use a jabo raid, or you carefully assemble a Buff attack with escorts, etc. I rather like the second option, just for the beauty of it, although I concede the easier bit to the first one. But I just profoundly depise the ones who defend that would only be fair that a lone plane manned by a single person could possibly wipe out the whole of an airbase, and then the same person can defend his lone plane which, IRL were able to manage with apparent no problem any encounter with single buffs, killing several fighters in the process. Get an escort if you want safetyness.

Current buff model is not porked, at least in my opinion. It has more resemblance for what was the average day in a WWII Buff pilot life. If this is not bread and butter for you, OK. I like this game for this is what it tries to simulate. Each step towards simulation vs. game is a step to keep my subscription alive. It works perfectly both ways.

And I have nothing else to say in this thread.

Turbo76 · « **Reply #44 on:** November 29, 2002, 01:18:20 PM »

Loser- you are in my squad and know we can kill towns in 2 passes. don't play dumb.

airstarts are dumb, and I am in one of the best bomber squads.

I have no problems with the bombers defenses. Last night I was gunner for and got 4 kills with no damage to b17s ( and we were lower than 10k and landing)

I just wish the drone pilots could fly better.

Oh, BTW I have lost over 300 bomber perks becuase drones on the Ar234 cant keep up, especially when using RATO.

out:D