Author Topic: Trim functions (Read 1292 times)

Tilt · « **Reply #30 on:** January 14, 2003, 06:13:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by crowbaby
OK - i must be really dumb. My last attempt to explain myself and then i'll just shut up.

Rotary= full clockwise-----------centre----------full anticlockwise
Trim= full up-------------------------------------full down
AoA= high---------------------------------------low
Speed= low----------------------------------------high

Analogue rotary, sure it has a centre detent, similar to the 'trim neutral' setting on some planes, but that still represents an input,

I think selecting auto would over ride the trim pots.............

re the centre detent when calibrating we would move both pots thru their ranges then leave them at the centre detent to show the out put at that position............(as we do with pitch and roll and rudder stuff)

The X45 has two rotaries (which I would use to trim rudder and elevator) but if like me you have replaced the rudder rocker with pedals then it would also be neat to put aeleron trim onto that. (if your AC supported it.............many had just trim tabs)

Revvin · « **Reply #31 on:** January 14, 2003, 06:22:32 PM »

Your stick or throttle when centred gives an output but you calibrate it and the sim knows that if the stick is centred then the controls do not operate one way or the other. The same goes for the analogue rotaries they are calibrated and the entre position shows neutral trim, no positive trim no negative trim but as you move through the rotaries range you keep adding a little more trim, to take that off you rotate the rotary the other way. If autopilot is going to cause a problem then set it so the trims have to be in their centre position ie no trim input, centre not up down left or right just centred like your joystick.

crowbaby · « **Reply #32 on:** January 14, 2003, 06:43:09 PM »

<>

But rotaries are not like the joystick. The joystick is sprung so that it returns to the centre when you let go off it (which is where we got all these trim problems from in the first place). The whole point of rotaries is that they stay where you leave them. You set your rotary to whatever trim position you want and you leave it there. (Griego seems to be lucky enough to have a stick which lets him do this already)

If we can only go into auto from a centre position on our rotary that would mean we could only go into auto when trimmed for whatever speed that represented, which i think would be a pain in the ass. I'd rather see a situation where if you come out of auto, the trim will return (at a realistic rate) to whatever trim setting your rotary/dial is at.

*Picture edited to reflect post below as well*

crowbaby · « **Reply #33 on:** January 14, 2003, 07:27:09 PM »

O.k Revvin, just re-read all your posts from the beginning, I think I understand you now.

It seems that you want the rotary mapped as a rocker switch: where deflecting in either direction would cause trim tabs to move in that direction, then returning it to the detent would cease moving them.

-To me this isn't much different to a key input, albeit might give finer control. In fact, I already have hats on my X45 doing what you seem to suggest, a nudge of the hat is a keypress, holding it down a series of keypresses. When i let go the hat, it returns to centre, no more input.

-There'd be no feedback from the rotary to tell you where your trim is set. To me this is one of the biggest advantage sof a rotary.

-There'd also be no advantage taken of the full range of the rotary. If you deflect it all the way as opposed to a little way, the speed of trim change will be the same (as HT points out). In fact there would be a disadvantage as you'd have further to turn it back to cease the input.

Revvin · « **Reply #34 on:** January 14, 2003, 11:52:39 PM »

Quote

It seems that you want the rotary mapped as a rocker switch: where deflecting in either direction would cause trim tabs to move in that direction, then returning it to the detent would cease moving them.

No you've read it completely the opposite way that's not what I wanted at all.

Quote

There'd also be no advantage taken of the full range of the rotary. If you deflect it all the way as opposed to a little way, the speed of trim change will be the same (as HT points out). In fact there would be a disadvantage as you'd have further to turn it back to cease the input.

The advantage is it being a little more realistic and intuitive, without the need to look at the cockpit I can tell how much trim I have because I can feel how far the rotary is turned.

Tilt · « **Reply #35 on:** January 15, 2003, 02:58:48 AM »

I agree with crowbaby

The rotary pots should be used as a trim wheel would be used in an aircraft............. but damped as HT stated.

You can zone the pots now (under the profiler) to act as revvin suggests.

crowbaby · « **Reply #36 on:** January 15, 2003, 05:35:29 AM »

>>No you've read it completely the opposite way that's not what I wanted at all. <<

I'm genuinely sorry, as i didn't mean to put words in your mouth. However, if option No.2 (from the pic above) is what both of us want, then i still don't understand the various lines i've quoted from your posts.

hitech · « **Reply #37 on:** January 15, 2003, 08:27:29 AM »

Revvin: I think the confusion comes in that the "Center of the axis would be neutral" is an imposiblity. Trim dosn't work that way, there would be a different neutral position for each speed, hence the center postion has to change for each speed.

HiTech

Karnak · « **Reply #38 on:** January 15, 2003, 08:46:38 AM »

I would be happy if the center position on the rotary knob was simply at the center of the trim indicator slider graphic.

As it is I have to be very, very careful about how fast I rotate the rotary knobs as they don't send enough key strokes if I rotate them too fast. That, and they get out of position, so to speak.

I would really like to simply be able to map the trim functions to some of my analog axis.

Tilt · « **Reply #39 on:** January 15, 2003, 10:19:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
.

I would really like to simply be able to map the trim functions to some of my analog axis.

Yup and damp it as HT says

Midnight · « **Reply #40 on:** January 15, 2003, 11:28:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech
Yes and no.

If I would implement it, it would be implemented so that there was a rate limiter, so you couldn't spin from one end to the other.

2nd realize that this would require you to use only those trim wheels and have to set trim before every flight. When on auto pilot it would override the trim wheels but once you came off auto the plane would be slamed based on where your trim wheels where.

HiTech

Hiya HT! No problem with me. That is the way RPMs work now anyway.

If I set my engine RPM low and then Engage WEP, the RPMs automatically goes to maximum. When WEP is disabled, RPM goes back to the trim-wheel setting.

Personally, I would LOVE to see this implemented because it would allow me to complete my cockpit design to use actual trim-wheels rather than switches.

Please implement. Thanks

Modas · « **Reply #41 on:** January 16, 2003, 10:09:21 AM »

ok, here is a question related to using the rotaries..

I don't have rudder pedals, so on my cougar, I have the range knob configured as an axis and have the rudders mapped to that. It works great, expect when I'm in the bombsite. I get absolutely no input from it (i.e, can't steer with it). The rudders work if I'm in a turret tho.

Does anyone have any idea why it works in the turret and not in the bombsite?

TIA

BenDover · « **Reply #42 on:** January 16, 2003, 12:31:06 PM »

its always like that

Revvin · « **Reply #43 on:** January 16, 2003, 12:35:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by crowbaby
I'm genuinely sorry, as i didn't mean to put words in your mouth. However, if option No.2 (from the pic above) is what both of us want, then i still don't understand the various lines i've quoted from your posts. [/B]

Hehe I think we've just been confusing each other, I struggled to try and describe it to you but the basis of what I wanted can be done in IL-2 have you got the sim or perhaps seen the demo? it would explain what I would like in AH better than my words perhaps..hell and English is suppossed to be our native language

Hitech> I'm not quite sure what you mean, there is a maximum and minimum level or trim yes? is there not a trim settign where there is neither positive or negative trim? would this be the centre of the rotary axis? this is the way it works in IL-2 as you slowly dial more trim in as speed increases. Perhaps I need to take some flying lessons

Sorry for the delay in replying, been working away from home for two days without net access (hell!)

Modas · « **Reply #44 on:** January 16, 2003, 12:37:19 PM »

Not true. I could steer the buff from the bomesite when I had the rudders mapped to the keyboard. However, I didn't have the resolution that I have now. A key press was a percentage of the total rudder travel (a rather large percenage at that). With the rotary, I can adjust the rudder in very fine increments which is why I'm using it in this fashion. Just can't steer the buff from the bombsite anymore.